Should voters be required to show photo ID?

[Razgovory]

I suspect that voter fraud is much less of a problem then is often assumed considering how low the number charges and convictions have been made about it.  It makes a good excuse for why the election didn't go the way you wanted it to.

That could be a sign that it's rare, or it could be a sign that it's easy to hide. 

I suppose that's true for any statistic.  Blacks may make up the majority of the population in the US, but are simply really good at hiding and nobody know about it.  I doubt this is the case though.

[Eddie Teach]

I would posit that the rates of different races being uncounted by the census are much closer to each other than the rates of different crimes being discovered and reported.

[11B4V]

Figures.  Go out and buy some more guns.  That ought to calm your nerves.

Yes, it's fear that drives me to collect guns.  In fact, I sleep with a Mosin Nagant under my pillow.  Bayonet retracted, of course.

One would not want to poke oneself.

[11B4V]

That is what you guys are afraid of right?  Illegal immigrants voting en masse against your interests?

Yes, terribly.  Keeps us up at night.

Figures.  Go out and buy some more guns.  That ought to calm your nerves.

Actually I find reloading more relaxing.

[dps]

I suspect that voter fraud is much less of a problem then is often assumed considering how low the number charges and convictions have been made about it.  It makes a good excuse for why the election didn't go the way you wanted it to.

Well, let me qualify what I said earlier a bit.  I think it's more common than many people realize (and yes, I think it's probably easy to get away with) but I think that it's less of a problem on a national scale than it might otherwise be because it's done by both parties, so a lot of it cancels out--though on a local or state basis it might be a huge problem.

And when I say "it's done by both parties", I don't think that the national party heirachies have much to do with it.  It's at the local level that it's done (and probably sometimes it's not so much a "party" thing as fraud done to favor a particular individual--for example, in local elections in areas of WV where Republicans never win local elections, I've heard a lot of allegations of fraud in Democratic primaries).

[Razgovory]

Do you have any proof?  Allegations of fraud may very well be sour grapes or cognitive dissonance to explain why the majority isn't winning.

[Maximus]

I've said that I don't think the level of fraud justifies the extra hassle.  I certainly don't think it justifies the hassle and the cost of providing people with free, legitimate photo ID.

There are many more benefits to having a universally-recognized secure ID system. Personally I think that, like education, it is something society and the economy would benefit from as a whole and is something government is uniquely situated to provide.

[Sheilbh]

I've said that I don't think the level of fraud justifies the extra hassle.  I certainly don't think it justifies the hassle and the cost of providing people with free, legitimate photo ID.

There are many more benefits to having a universally-recognized secure ID system. Personally I think that, like education, it is something society and the economy would benefit from as a whole and is something government is uniquely situated to provide.

As I say I don't mind the continental method.  They've got national, mandatory IDs so it seems fine that they have got show their ID to vote.  But as you say it would have other uses - though personally I'm sceptical. 

If you don't have a national ID system then I don't think it's right to impose that requirement on a voter.  But I think spending money on providing free IDs just for people who want to vote is wasteful and not worth the cost when fraud isn't a significant problem.

[Berkut]

I've said that I don't think the level of fraud justifies the extra hassle.  I certainly don't think it justifies the hassle and the cost of providing people with free, legitimate photo ID.

There are many more benefits to having a universally-recognized secure ID system. Personally I think that, like education, it is something society and the economy would benefit from as a whole and is something government is uniquely situated to provide.

I actually do not disagree - honestly, I find the American phobia towards ID rather bizarre.

I would actually support a national ID law, or at least not be particularly opposed to it, on the grounds that there would be many benefits to a consistent and relatively more secure way to identify people for a variety of different reasons, one of which might be to reduce the potential for voter fraud.

But that isn't what these laws are about, unfortunately.

[Maximus]

I actually do not disagree - honestly, I find the American phobia towards ID rather bizarre.

Yea, anyone who wants to keep track of you already has an ID system for you. The difference is you can't make use of it or track the use of it by others.

[crazy canuck]

That is what you guys are afraid of right?  Illegal immigrants voting en masse against your interests?

Yes, terribly.  Keeps us up at night.

Figures.  Go out and buy some more guns.  That ought to calm your nerves.

Actually I find reloading more relaxing.

Just dont sleep with it under your pillow unless the safety is securely in place.


Better still learn to cope without deadly toys.

[Siege]

[crazy canuck]

I love it when Siege can make the argument for me.

[derspiess]

[dps]

Do you have any proof?  Allegations of fraud may very well be sour grapes or cognitive dissonance to explain why the majority isn't winning.

If I had proof, I'd be telling the FBI, not Languish.