News:

And we're back!

Main Menu

Chariots

Started by alfred russel, April 08, 2012, 08:31:39 PM

Previous topic - Next topic
Print
Go Down Pages1 2 3 4 5 ... 13
User actions

alfred russel

April 08, 2012, 08:31:39 PM
Can anyone explain how they were effective in warfare? In a premodern world with lots of trees and rocks and not a lot of roads, they couldn't have been maneuverable and were probably quite restricted in where they could go. Plus with 2 to 4 horses, I would think they were a large target for archers. I've been told they provided a stable platform to shoot from, but I doubt they stable when moving (ancient suspension ftl).
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

There's a fine line between salvation and drinking poison in the jungle.

I'm embarrassed. I've been making the mistake of associating with you. It won't happen again. :)
-garbon, February 23, 2014

Razgovory

#1
April 08, 2012, 08:53:55 PM
I don't think anyone is sure exactly.  Egyptian ones seem to have been used in the same way horse archers would be used later.  Quick mobile archers.  They were probably used in flat desert areas of the Middle East.  Since horses were to small to ride yet, they really the only way to move quickly around.  They were pretty light in construction: like a basket with raw hide bottom mounted on an axle.  That might have absorbed enough shock to give you a chance to shoot a bow.  I imagine you had to practice a lot.

Others are a bit more difficult to understand.  For instance the Hittites used really big ones with four guys and four horses.  They may be been used as heavy cavalry, but they also could have been mostly for show.  The Mycenaean Greeks used them, but Greece isn't really a flat place.  So I don't know how they were used.  There are some written accounts of chariot use from the Roman invasion of Britain and Alexander's invasion of Persia.  That might give an idea.  Note that chariots were not used that successfully in those campaigns.

There are also some primitive ones depicted being used in Sumeria that are pulled by wild Asses and have four wheels.  Nobody knows what those were for.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

CountDeMoney

#2
April 08, 2012, 08:57:11 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on April 08, 2012, 08:31:39 PM
Can anyone explain how they were effective in warfare?

It doesn't take a Babylonian Bobby Bowden to know that speed kills, dang gummit.

alfred russel

#3
April 08, 2012, 08:59:41 PM
They may not have been used successfully against the Romans, but I presume that if they were being used when the Romans showed up they were sucessfully used prior to Roman arrival.

I wasn't aware that horses were too small to ride at certain points.
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

There's a fine line between salvation and drinking poison in the jungle.

I'm embarrassed. I've been making the mistake of associating with you. It won't happen again. :)
-garbon, February 23, 2014

Razgovory

#4
April 08, 2012, 09:01:49 PM
I think that's why they started off with chariots.  Horses hadn't been bred large enough to ride.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

alfred russel

#5
April 08, 2012, 09:02:02 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 08, 2012, 08:57:11 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on April 08, 2012, 08:31:39 PM
Can anyone explain how they were effective in warfare?

It doesn't take a Babylonian Bobby Bowden to know that speed kills, dang gummit.

See: Dale Earnhardt, Dan Wheldon.
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

There's a fine line between salvation and drinking poison in the jungle.

I'm embarrassed. I've been making the mistake of associating with you. It won't happen again. :)
-garbon, February 23, 2014

alfred russel

#6
April 08, 2012, 09:02:51 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 08, 2012, 09:01:49 PM
I think that's why they started off with chariots.  Horses hadn't been bred large enough to ride.

Interesting. I learned something new today. Thanks Raz.
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

There's a fine line between salvation and drinking poison in the jungle.

I'm embarrassed. I've been making the mistake of associating with you. It won't happen again. :)
-garbon, February 23, 2014

CountDeMoney

#7
April 08, 2012, 09:09:42 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on April 08, 2012, 09:02:02 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 08, 2012, 08:57:11 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on April 08, 2012, 08:31:39 PM
Can anyone explain how they were effective in warfare?

It doesn't take a Babylonian Bobby Bowden to know that speed kills, dang gummit.

See: Dale Earnhardt, Dan Wheldon.

Heh.  Walls were the issue, not speed.

Razgovory

#8
April 08, 2012, 09:36:55 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on April 08, 2012, 09:02:51 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 08, 2012, 09:01:49 PM
I think that's why they started off with chariots.  Horses hadn't been bred large enough to ride.

Interesting. I learned something new today. Thanks Raz.

Well someone will probably show up and prove me wrong, so who knows.  I'm predicting Grumbler will.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

CountDeMoney

#9
April 08, 2012, 09:38:27 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 08, 2012, 09:36:55 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on April 08, 2012, 09:02:51 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 08, 2012, 09:01:49 PM
I think that's why they started off with chariots.  Horses hadn't been bred large enough to ride.

Interesting. I learned something new today. Thanks Raz.

Well someone will probably show up and prove me wrong, so who knows.  I'm predicting Grumbler will.

Well, what with him actually being there, and all.  :lol:

alfred russel

#10
April 08, 2012, 09:54:06 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 08, 2012, 09:36:55 PM
Well someone will probably show up and prove me wrong, so who knows.  I'm predicting Grumbler will.

Then hopefully he shows up soon. Otherwise if this topic comes up at work tomorrow I might share an incorrect point of view.
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

There's a fine line between salvation and drinking poison in the jungle.

I'm embarrassed. I've been making the mistake of associating with you. It won't happen again. :)
-garbon, February 23, 2014

11B4V

#11
April 08, 2012, 10:08:41 PM
You might reference the battle of Kadesh for starters.
"there's a long tradition of insulting people we disagree with here, and I'll be damned if I listen to your entreaties otherwise."-OVB

"Obviously not a Berkut-commanded armored column.  They're not all brewing."- CdM

"We've reached one of our phase lines after the firefight and it smells bad—meaning it's a little bit suspicious... Could be an amb—".

11B4V

#12
April 08, 2012, 10:12:55 PM
"there's a long tradition of insulting people we disagree with here, and I'll be damned if I listen to your entreaties otherwise."-OVB

"Obviously not a Berkut-commanded armored column.  They're not all brewing."- CdM

"We've reached one of our phase lines after the firefight and it smells bad—meaning it's a little bit suspicious... Could be an amb—".

alfred russel

#13
April 08, 2012, 10:57:10 PM
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

There's a fine line between salvation and drinking poison in the jungle.

I'm embarrassed. I've been making the mistake of associating with you. It won't happen again. :)
-garbon, February 23, 2014

HVC

#14
April 08, 2012, 11:00:59 PM
In ancient times chariots were mainly mobile archer platforms. Before stirups there wasn't really an effective way to use bow and arrows from horseback. Chariots were also used as a means of quick deployment for troops.
Being lazy is bad; unless you still get what you want, then it's called "patience".
Hubris must be punished. Severely.
Print
Go Up Pages1 2 3 4 5 ... 13
User actions