Chinese insider: China playing, and winning, zero-sum game with US

[Monoriu]

Meh, being jealous of Mono is about as compelling as hating on a brick wall.  Nigga just don't click.

CdM is wise

[Eddie Teach]

Also, I'm not sure.  I mean, there's totalitarianism and overcrowding and a horrible tonal language with the world's worst writing system, and then there's living in Florida.

I wish I lived in Florida. Tired of being cold six months of the year.

[LaCroix]

There is no "back into the fold". Taiwan was never a part of the PRC.

no where have i said PRC

[Maximus]

There is no "back into the fold". Taiwan was never a part of the PRC.

no where have i said PRC

They are already in China

[LaCroix]

They are already in China

it's a status not exactly firmly established. they are fairly independent

[Maximus]

Yes, independent China.

The PRC has absolutely no claim to Taiwan other than "we wants it".

Not by self-determination
Not by history
Not by conquest(although I'm sure they'd like to)

[LaCroix]

Yes, independent China.

The PRC has absolutely no claim to Taiwan other than "we wants it".

Not by self-determination
Not by history
Not by conquest(although I'm sure they'd like to)

ROC is not china, it is a breakaway chinese province that tries to maintain its own independence.

taiwan had previously been chinese for hundreds of years before japan annexed it in the late 19th. it became a chinese province when it was returned to china after the empire of japan's annihilation. that it was ROC troops that landed and established control means nothing

semantics won't work here: there are not two chinas, there is only one, and it exists on the mainland and has a government that currently calls itself the PRC. if you have trouble with this concept, imagine an analogy where a breakaway american state was created out of no where, and foreign powers hostile to the united states kept it alive for decades

[garbon]

if you have trouble with this concept, imagine an analogy where a breakaway american state was created out of no where, and foreign powers hostile to the united states kept it alive for decades

Even you know that isn't an accurate analogy, Marti.

[Maximus]

Since we're doing Martiesque analogies, a better one would be if the US claimed rulership of Britain because they were now the true government of the English-speaking world.

[Valmy]

taiwan had previously been chinese for hundreds of years before japan annexed it in the late 19th. it became a chinese province when it was returned to china after the empire of japan's annihilation. that it was ROC troops that landed and established control means nothing

The Chinese Empire only ruled Taiwan since 1700 or so.  Hundreds of years here being literally two hundred years.  The only Chinese Government who has controlled Taiwan since then still control it today.  I guess I fail to see the deep historical claim as some sort of integral part of China.  Is this one of those 'wherever the Russian soldier goes is Mother Russia now' kind of deals?

[MadImmortalMan]

Facts are what the Party says they are, comrades. I urge you to stop thinking too much on this matter. The official position of the Party cannot be questioned.

[Jacob]

Those of you who claim that it is ludicrous to consider Taiwan part of China, how do you square that away with the long standing claim of the Taiwanese government to be the legitimate government of all of China?

I mean, personally I think that Taiwan's better off without the PRC, but I don't really think the issue is as clear cut as all that when there are significant portions of the Taiwanese population who consider themselves to be part of one China, even if they don't want any part of the CCP.

[Barrister]

Those of you who claim that it is ludicrous to consider Taiwan part of China, how do you square that away with the long standing claim of the Taiwanese government to be the legitimate government of all of China?

Well you have to consider the fact that the PRC has been very belligerent about any suggestion coming from Taiwan that they are not a part of China. That "long standing claim" appears to exist out of sheer self-survival.

[Valmy]

Those of you who claim that it is ludicrous to consider Taiwan part of China, how do you square that away with the long standing claim of the Taiwanese government to be the legitimate government of all of China?

I mean, personally I think that Taiwan's better off without the PRC, but I don't really think the issue is as clear cut as all that when there are significant portions of the Taiwanese population who consider themselves to be part of one China, even if they don't want any part of the CCP.

I consider it ludicrous that there is some sort of historically based justification that means I should support or consider it some sort of justice.  But it is not ludicrous that China wants it and might succeed in taking it someday.  I think the best play would be to negotiate some sort of deal like HK did, where everybody can basically continue as before but with tensions eased.

But as for the pretentions of the KMT well that was how Taiwan became part of China in the first place, by the Ming Dynasty fleeing there, booting out the Dutch, and creating a Chinese Government in exile.  It would only be fitting I guess if history repeated itself.

[Razgovory]

I think they have legitimate claims on one another.  That still doesn't mean it's wise to give the PRC carte blanche to try take over Taiwan.  I suspect that Taiwanese wouldn't be keen on it, and very well may fight to prevent it.  That means a war.  I don't see how a war in East Asia helps the US much.