Trayvon Martin case: use of Stand Your Ground law or pursuit of a black teen?

Started by jimmy olsen, March 21, 2012, 11:32:23 PM

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Admiral Yi

#570
March 28, 2012, 05:52:14 PM
I think the facts being leaked about Trayvon are virtually meaningless and the ones being leaked about Zimmerman are much less favorable.  I say this as a person marginally sympathetic to Zimmerman.

Razgovory

#571
March 28, 2012, 06:00:17 PM
I'm shocked, shocked that Yi is sympathetic to Zimmerman.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Admiral Yi

#572
March 28, 2012, 06:06:41 PM
My mind is boggled beyond words that Raz is still stalking me.

PDH

#573
March 28, 2012, 06:22:50 PM
Can I stalk you?  I am a member of the Languish Watch.
I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.
-Umberto Eco

-------
"I'm pretty sure my level of depression has nothing to do with how much of a fucking asshole you are."

-CdM

Razgovory

#574
March 28, 2012, 06:24:23 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 28, 2012, 06:06:41 PM
My mind is boggled beyond words that Raz is still stalking me.

I'm afraid that if I don't keep an eye on you, you might hit me from behind and I'll have to shoot you.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Admiral Yi

#575
March 28, 2012, 06:25:44 PM
Quote from: PDH on March 28, 2012, 06:22:50 PM
Can I stalk you?  I am a member of the Languish Watch.

There are plenty of other posters that don't have a single stalker.  Don't you think it would be more equitable to share the wealth?

PDH

#576
March 28, 2012, 06:27:21 PM
Too true.  I will go back to stalking PDH.
I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.
-Umberto Eco

-------
"I'm pretty sure my level of depression has nothing to do with how much of a fucking asshole you are."

-CdM

Razgovory

#577
March 28, 2012, 06:27:38 PM
To get a better idea what Derspeiss was going on about I checked the website he used to link us to.  Breitbart.  Wow.  Take a gander at the comments. And people wonder why I suspect Republicans of harboring racists in their midst.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Razgovory

#578
March 28, 2012, 06:28:46 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 28, 2012, 06:25:44 PM
Quote from: PDH on March 28, 2012, 06:22:50 PM
Can I stalk you?  I am a member of the Languish Watch.

There are plenty of other posters that don't have a single stalker.  Don't you think it would be more equitable to share the wealth?

How many posters do you think we have here who post regularly?  50?
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

grumbler

#579
March 28, 2012, 06:32:57 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 28, 2012, 06:06:41 PM
My mind is boggled beyond words that Raz is still stalking me.
Don't go there, Bro. 
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

derspiess

#580
March 28, 2012, 07:00:25 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 28, 2012, 05:52:14 PM
I think the facts being leaked about Trayvon are virtually meaningless and the ones being leaked about Zimmerman are much less favorable.  I say this as a person marginally sympathetic to Zimmerman.

I'm not really sympathetic to either party-- not at this point, anyway.  I'm sorry that Trayvon is dead and I feel bad for his family, but I don't feel like I have a dog in this race.

Before some of the more recent stuff came out about Trayvon, I found it less likely that he acted aggressively.  Knowing what we now know about his character/personality (which, Shielbh, I don't think is limited to simply being "a teenager with a Twitter account"), I find it more likely that Trayvon acted aggressively in some way towards Zimmerman.  Whether Trayvon was provked in any way, I don't know. 

Maybe it would be nice to wait for more actual details of the incident before we make up our minds as to what the hell happened.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Admiral Yi

#581
March 28, 2012, 07:12:13 PM
Quote from: derspiess on March 28, 2012, 07:00:25 PM
Knowing what we now know about his character/personality (which, Shielbh, I don't think is limited to simply being "a teenager with a Twitter account"), I find it more likely that Trayvon acted aggressively in some way towards Zimmerman. 

I don't.  Smoking ganja doesn't incline one to aggression or violence.  More like the opposite in my experience.

Jacob

#582
March 28, 2012, 07:15:40 PM
Quote from: derspiess on March 28, 2012, 07:00:25 PMMaybe it would be nice to wait for more actual details of the incident before we make up our minds as to what the hell happened.

Yeah. I'm not of the "lynch Zimmerman" party either. It is possible that Zimmerman in fact acted reasonably when he shot and killed Martin. On the balance, I think that he didn't act reasonably, but I agree that we - or at least the justice system - should investigate and look at the facts to determine what likely happened and judge accordingly.

My real outrage about this is that the local PD responded to the call about Zimmerman shooting someone, and didn't investigate further on Zimmerman's say-so. Whether it's individual racists in the PD department, institutional racism, a bad combination of laws or some other causes, the end result is clearly injust; the shooting of an unarmed teenager minding his own business should at the very least result in a thorough investigation of the facts. That it didn't is a travesty.

Now, I suspect that after a thorough investigation Zimmerman is likely to be found to be in the wrong and basically a murderer (or maybe a manslaughterer, whatever the proper term is), but that is something that should be determined by a thorough investigation and proper legal process. It's the whole "blood on your nose, grass stains on your shirt? Yeah, obviously self defence; case closed" thing that's galling.

Jacob

#583
March 28, 2012, 07:17:12 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 28, 2012, 07:12:13 PM
Quote from: derspiess on March 28, 2012, 07:00:25 PM
Knowing what we now know about his character/personality (which, Shielbh, I don't think is limited to simply being "a teenager with a Twitter account"), I find it more likely that Trayvon acted aggressively in some way towards Zimmerman. 

I don't.  Smoking ganja doesn't incline one to aggression or violence.  More like the opposite in my experience.

I dunno... I've found that long term pot users tend to be mellow most of the time, but when they fly off the handle they do so more intensely than average.

But I doubt a 17 year old has smoked enough pot to get to that point.

Admiral Yi

#584
March 28, 2012, 07:19:12 PM
Quote from: Jacob on March 28, 2012, 07:17:12 PM
I dunno... I've found that long term pot users tend to be mellow most of the time, but when they fly off the handle they do so more intensely than average.

But I doubt a 17 year old has smoked enough pot to get to that point.

They fly off the handle and rant about conspiracy theories to people who have already heard them a thousand times.  They don't fly off the handle and pick fights.

In my experience.
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