D&D 4th Ed. Character building

[Jacob]

We eventually decided the queen had to save vs Rods or Staves.

 

[Jacob]

I very much doubt that Elminster was Greenwood's avatar, given that Elminster has been largely unchanged since Greenwood was a boy in the 60s.  He's Gandalf that's a tiny bit more mischievous.

I'm pretty sure I've read it in a number of places.  I mean, Greenwood used to have a regular column where he'd write in the voice of Elminster while expounding on various Realms trivia.

But you made the setting and NPCs work for you, so kudos to that.  When I ran games in the Realm I ignored all those super powered NPCs entirely as well (which is why I don't mind them being gone).

BTW:  Using the phrase 'Mary Sue' robs you of all credibility.

What makes it so odious to you?

[Neil]

I very much doubt that Elminster was Greenwood's avatar, given that Elminster has been largely unchanged since Greenwood was a boy in the 60s.  He's Gandalf that's a tiny bit more mischievous.

I'm pretty sure I've read it in a number of places.  I mean, Greenwood used to have a regular column where he'd write in the voice of Elminster while expounding on various Realms trivia.

But you made the setting and NPCs work for you, so kudos to that.  When I ran games in the Realm I ignored all those super powered NPCs entirely as well (which is why I don't mind them being gone).

He's certainly been a literary device.  But writing an article from the point of view of a character is different from having that character be an author's avatar.

BTW:  Using the phrase 'Mary Sue' robs you of all credibility.

What makes it so odious to you?

Three reasons:  One is Martinus.  Two is that the term strikes me as pejorative.  Three is that it seems to get thrown around way too much, like any character that isn't crippled by faults or retardation is a Mary Sue.

[Jacob]

He's certainly been a literary device.  But writing an article from the point of view of a character is different from having that character be an author's avatar.

Sure.  It's not a claim I have a lot of stake in.  I've seen asserted a number of places and it seems reasonable enough to me, but if you want to say it's not that's no skin off my back.

Three reasons:  One is Martinus.  Two is that the term strikes me as pejorative.  Three is that it seems to get thrown around way too much, like any character that isn't crippled by faults or retardation is a Mary Sue.

I'm with you on 1., 3. could be a valid complaint, but 2. isn't really; the term Mary Sue is meant to be a pejorative - overpowered "perfect" characters inserted by the author into the fiction to serve their own wish-fulfillment.  In RPGs that pretty much means any high level PCs from the author games that are immune to the plot yet remain significant in the setting.

[Neil]

I'm with you on 1., 3. could be a valid complaint, but 2. isn't really; the term Mary Sue is meant to be a pejorative - overpowered "perfect" characters inserted by the author into the fiction to serve their own wish-fulfillment.  In RPGs that pretty much means any high level PCs from the author games that are immune to the plot yet remain significant in the setting.

In that case, it's inaccurate.  The Knights of Myth Drannor aren't particularily significant, nor are they of a particularily high level (not sure where they are now, but they were 7th-9th level).  Elminster was never a PC, nor were any of the Seven Sisters.  The Crazed Venturers were high level, but pretty much irrelevant from an overall plot perspective.  The only one that was even slightly used in novels or settings was Malchor Harpell, and there was a cameo from Nain and Savengriff in one of the last books.

[Razgovory]

It's shocking how, in the space of 15 years, D&D has gone from being We eventually decided the queen had to save vs Rods or Staves.

 

[Darth Wagtaros]

Fifth level paladin in the service of Sune, I can have a 4th, 5th, and 6th lvl magic item.  Ideas?

[Neil]

Overpowered bad guys were fine.  It was the good guys that were the problem, since many people whined about how they would just show up and solve all the players' problems.  Of course, that was bad GMing, but the whiny masses have spoken.

Yeah I do not get that at all.  You don't have to have Elminster port in and save you when the Chultan Yuan-Tis are about to sacrifice you.

Personally, I think CRPGs caused some of the problem.  Around the WotC boards, I recall people complaining because the NPCs featured prominantly in the novels, and that the game should revolve around the PCs.  While it's easy to do this in a computer game, it's laughable to try doing this in a shared universe the size of the Realms.  Some players, primarily younger ones feel that NOTHING should happen in the setting unless it's caused by the PCs.

[Razgovory]

You know, the first Forgotton Realms published adventure I ran did have Elminster port in and save the PCs...

It came with the Forgotten Realms boxed set (2nd edition) and was under Shadowdale.  Elminster could show up with his pet dog in the dungeon and try to teach in tricks.  In particular to heel.  Ever time he said "heel" his wand light up and heal the party.  I am not making this up.

[Neil]

You know, the first Forgotton Realms published adventure I ran did have Elminster port in and save the PCs...

It came with the Forgotten Realms boxed set (2nd edition) and was under Shadowdale.  Elminster could show up with his pet dog in the dungeon and try to teach in tricks.  In particular to heel.  Ever time he said "heel" his wand light up and heal the party.  I am not making this up.

Healing is sometimes at a premium in parties.  One of the few times I didn't play a cleric, nobody else would, and so the DM inserted an NPC that would show up now and again called 'Bob the Cleric', a kindly wandering soul who would often heal adventurers.

[Savonarola]

Fifth level paladin in the service of Sune, I can have a 4th, 5th, and 6th lvl magic item.  Ideas?

Put your sixth level one in armor and the fourth level or fifth level one in whatever Amulet of Protection is appropriate for that level.  You'll probably in the thick of combat, and you want your opponents to miss as often as possible.

[Ed Anger]

You'll want Stormbringer and Mournblade for your character Wags.

[PDH]

You'll want Stormbringer and Mournblade for your character Wags.

Way too underpowered in this setting...

[Ed Anger]

You'll want Stormbringer and Mournblade for your character Wags.

Way too underpowered in this setting...

Okay, he can be Raistlin then. Or one of the Taken from the Black Company books.

BE SOULCATCHER WAGS!

[Darth Wagtaros]

Soulcatcher was a chick.