Iraq falling apart?

[Neil]

*If* Iraq fails, it will be in spite of US efforts, not as a result of US meddling.

The US invaded and knocked out Saddam, who was the best hope for advancement and stability in Iraq.  Since then, they disbanded the army and have tried to balance the interests of the three main ethnic groups, which has only made things worse.

Nobody in the US paused to consider what they were doing.  They just rushed to impose their democracy without thinking.

[derspiess]

The US invaded and knocked out Saddam, who was the best hope for advancement and stability in Iraq.  Since then, they disbanded the army and have tried to balance the interests of the three main ethnic groups, which has only made things worse.

Nobody in the US paused to consider what they were doing.  They just rushed to impose their democracy without thinking.

I have no regrets about toppling Saddam.  But I always disagreed with the Quixotic notion of somehow being able to establish a western-style democracy there.  Before, during, and after the invasion I was in favor of either partitioning the country or installing a US-friendly (or at least US-neutral) strongman.

The only silver lining at our attempts to install democracy is that we can say we tried.  Plus it's a fresh case study to use against neocons when the subject of nation-building arises.

[Razgovory]

I've come to the conclusion that places like Iraq have dictators because dictators are the only ones who can enforce a semblance of order.  People really do get the government they deserve.

[CountDeMoney]

The US invaded and knocked out Saddam, who was the best hope for advancement and stability in Iraq.  Since then, they disbanded the army and have tried to balance the interests of the three main ethnic groups, which has only made things worse.

Nobody in the US paused to consider what they were doing.  They just rushed to impose their democracy without thinking.

I have no regrets about toppling Saddam.  But I always disagreed with the Quixotic notion of somehow being able to establish a western-style democracy there.  Before, during, and after the invasion I was in favor of either partitioning the country or installing a US-friendly (or at least US-neutral) strongman.

Me too, but what do we know.
A stable government does not mean a democratic government.  I wanted another Sunni general from Tikrit.

A country with 66% Shia population? WHAT COULD HAPPEN DUBYA

[Ideologue]

Sunni, Shia, Alawite, whatever.  Like it matters?

[Tonitrus]

Kurdistan declaring independence (and probably a neat little civil war) might just might make my 2012 predictions list.

[Siege]

I've come to the conclusion that places like Iraq have dictators because dictators are the only ones who can enforce a semblance of order.  People really do get the government they deserve.

Whoa, I would have never thought for a moment that such wisdom could come out of your mouth.

[Eddie Teach]

I've come to the conclusion that places like Iraq have dictators because dictators are the only ones who can enforce a semblance of order.  People really do get the government they deserve.

Whoa, I would have never thought for a moment that such wisdom could come out of your mouth.

Well, technically it came out of his fingers.

[Razgovory]

I'm flattered.  I think.

[Admiral Yi]

Does this mean that we can blame France for slavery in the United States? 

[Valmy]

Does this mean that we can blame France for slavery in the United States? 

Because the United States also needed a dictator to keep together and instead France forced us to adopt a Democratic Constitution thus making the Civil War inevitable?

Or wait that didn't start slavery in the US.  WTF Yi?

[The Brain]

Slavery came to the US from Africa.

[Admiral Yi]

Because the United States also needed a dictator to keep together and instead France forced us to adopt a Democratic Constitution thus making the Civil War inevitable?

Or wait that didn't start slavery in the US.  WTF Yi?

And GWII didn't start sectarian hositility and violence in Iraq.

There has to be a statute of limitations on this kind of thing.  At some point in time Iraqis have to be judged for the results of their own choices.

[Gups]

And GWII didn't start sectarian hositility and violence in Iraq.

There has to be a statute of limitations on this kind of thing.  At some point in time Iraqis have to be judged for the results of their own choices.

Nature abhors a vaccum.

What's your limitation period on this one? When does it start from. Does it apply equally to apartheid, 9/11, the holocaust and colonialism?

[Sheilbh]

The absence of security and empowering of extreme forces, both consequences of a failed occupation, did.