What is the West? Is Greece part of the West?

[Razgovory]

What do you all consider "The West"?  While we all enjoy mocking Marty and Siegy about not being Westerners, this does beg the question.  What exactly is the West?  When did it start?

I'm a bit different then most and consider the West starting a few centuries after the fall of Rome in Western Europe.  I do not consider Ancient Greece or the Roman empire "Western".  This may seem odd, but I think I have sound reasoning here.  We don't consider Egypt, Syria or Bulgaria "Western", yet their claims to the heritage of Ancient Greece is just as good as say France or the US.  What makes the US or France, if anything, closer to Greece and Rome then Egypt and Bulgaria?  Nothing I say.  So in my opinion the Civilizations of the classical world need their own classification.  I suggest the term "Mediterranean Civilization" to describe this civilization rather then the more common "Greco-Roman", to acknowledge the contributions of places like Phoenicia and Carthage.

The exact borders and time periods are bit murky, but that's the general gist of it.

[dps]

The West is really just the UK, the US, and the English-speaking parts of Canada, and it didn't come into being until after WWII.

OK, not really serious, but if you want a serious answer, I'll have to consider if for a while.

[Maximus]

What makes the US or France, if anything, closer to Greece and Rome then Egypt and Bulgaria?

I'd say the so-called enlightenment movement.

[Viking]

The West, the civilisation originating from the four fundamental ideas of Levantine Religion, Greek Thought, Roman Law and Germanic Politics which was united by Roman Arms and transmitted through history through the Catholic Church into the hands of the people and thinkers of what is universally acknowledged as the west today.

So, no, Greece used to be part of the west but left it in the Great Schism in 1080.

[Sheilbh]

I think the West's a handy piece of Cold War shorthand

[mongers]

I think the West's a handy piece of Cold War shorthand

What's replaced it then ?

'The International Community' ? 

[grumbler]

I think the West's a handy piece of Cold War shorthand  

Interesting, but not very useful, since the concept predated the Cold war and has survived it.

Culturally and politically, I view the West as the descendents of the Latin-speaking (as opposed to Greek-speaking) portions of the Roman Empire.  While it traces its roots to ancient Greece, I don't consider ancient Greece to be "Western" in any significant way.

The concept has evolved, though, to the point where pretty much every free-market, liberal democratic, individualistic society is considered "Western."  Korea and Japan, for instance, aren't "Western" in culture, but they are still considered "Western" by most people, I would think.

[DGuller]

What do you all consider "The West"?

Countries that are part of Latin tech group.

[Sheilbh]

Interesting, but not very useful, since the concept predated the Cold war and has survived it.

What examples have you of it pre-dating it?

The concept has evolved, though, to the point where pretty much every free-market, liberal democratic, individualistic society is considered "Western."  Korea and Japan, for instance, aren't "Western" in culture, but they are still considered "Western" by most people, I would think.

I think this is how it's evolved.  It's expanded to include those countries as Western, but also countries that weren't  previously 'western' like those of Central or Eastern Europe.

[Viking]

What makes the US or France, if anything, closer to Greece and Rome then Egypt and Bulgaria?

I'd say the so-called enlightenment movement.

It's not so-called and it's not a movement. It is The Enlightenment (tm) and it is the true bearer of the good that exists in the world today and is at the heart of the west. We (the west) do also carry some ancient and much evil philosophical baggage expounded by the pre-moderns, rationalists, romantics and other anti-reason and anti-individual thinkers.

The Enlightenment is ultimately what separates us from the non-us.

[Josquius]

The west is Christendom.
Excepting of course recent converts in Africa and Asia, the Phillipines, and Ethiopia which wasn't historically regarded as such.
Also excluded is Russia, being a beast unto itself.

This isn't to say of course that christianity is important to what the west is in this day and age, it is however a handy way to describe its boundaries. Basically Europe and its descendant nations.

[dps]

The west is Christendom.
Excepting of course recent converts in Africa and Asia, the Phillipines, and Ethiopia which wasn't historically regarded as such.
Also excluded is Russia, being a beast unto itself.

This isn't to say of course that christianity is important to what the west is in this day and age, it is however a handy way to describe its boundaries. Basically Europe and its descendant nations.

Ethiopia is historically Christian.

[Scipio]

The Greeks are Turks.  No Turks are part of the subset of humanity known as "the West," unless they are fully assimilated.

[PDH]

Of course the antecedents of the modern West are not part of that modern idea, but to exclude Greece, the Levant, hell even the Fertile Crescent of 7000 years ago takes an organizing concept and removes it from history.

The West is a process, not so much a thing.  Depending on one's organizing factors, several wide-ranging definitions could be drawn.  Really, it is like finding a starting date for some historical epoch without understanding that this is a moving target depending on what criteria one uses.

Divorcing the present from the past leads to Rick Perry style history.

[garbon]

Korea and Japan, for instance, aren't "Western" in culture, but they are still considered "Western" by most people, I would think.

Who are these people?