Another Raz history question: medieval armor

[Razgovory]

A mail shirt isn't that heavy for a man in good shape, 20-30 pounds depending on how long (to hips or knees). Plus it's equally distributed across your body.

It's not distributed equally across your body.  Most of the weight is on your shoulders.

[Razgovory]

US marines in World War 2 carried a pack that weight somewhere around 70 lbs.

Chainmail is not the most comfortable to wear, 30 lbs is a lighter shirt - one that was reinforces on the shoulders or other vital bits might be 45 or more lbs.  That is a lot of weight to carry on the shoulders, and even a good stout belt didn't lower this down too much.  Plus, to distribute the weight better straps would be needed.  Remember, under this was also a thick gambeson, so it was often hot as well.

Now, that said, it is not the easiest to put on quickly for a fight, heavy, to not shift it needs to be at least belted - and there is no real good way to carry it other than to wear it.  Soldiers who did have it would often wear it, but when in a place that they could take it off, I am quite sure they did.

Now, after antiquity, it was not all that common, at least until the High Middle Ages.  Before 1000 (as a rough year), it was for leaders, richer cavalry, and the nobs.

Well the Bayeux tapestry depicts mail being carried around.  It looked like it was carried on a spit, and carried by some servants.

[Ed Anger]

I wish I could remember the book that said one of the factors in the decline in the Roman army was them not wearing their armor as they marched around and started having it carted around for them.

[dps]

US marines in World War 2 carried a pack that weight somewhere around 70 lbs.

Chainmail is not the most comfortable to wear, 30 lbs is a lighter shirt - one that was reinforces on the shoulders or other vital bits might be 45 or more lbs.  That is a lot of weight to carry on the shoulders, and even a good stout belt didn't lower this down too much.  Plus, to distribute the weight better straps would be needed.  Remember, under this was also a thick gambeson, so it was often hot as well.

Now, that said, it is not the easiest to put on quickly for a fight, heavy, to not shift it needs to be at least belted - and there is no real good way to carry it other than to wear it.  Soldiers who did have it would often wear it, but when in a place that they could take it off, I am quite sure they did.

Now, after antiquity, it was not all that common, at least until the High Middle Ages.  Before 1000 (as a rough year), it was for leaders, richer cavalry, and the nobs.

Well the Bayeux tapestry depicts mail being carried around.  It looked like it was carried on a spit, and carried by some servants.

Well, yeah, if you could afford a good set of chainmail and it had to be carried, you'd have servants do it for you.

[PDH]

Well the Bayeux tapestry depicts mail being carried around.  It looked like it was carried on a spit, and carried by some servants.

The common soldiers didn't wear mail though at this time, linen, heavy cloth, wool, leather...those were the armor of the average Guillaumes - the nobles have people to carry it for them.

[mongers]

WWI infantrymen carried something like 250 lbs in their pack IIRC (I've got the actual numbers somewhere, but I'm not going to look it up--and of course if varied a bit from one country to another).

That sounds extremely implausible, especially considering that people back then were a whole lot skinnier than they are now.

From my youthful days of lugging around large rucksacks/bergens 25% of your body weight is a good sustainable weight limit to carry. For some if not most western militaries 40% was not at all uncommon.
I suspect nowadays with equipment creep, Seigy's colleagues are going to be transporting around quite a bit more than that 40%, hence the concerns about infantry tactical mobility.

[mongers]

......
Now, that said, it is not the easiest to put on quickly for a fight, heavy, to not shift it needs to be at least belted - and there is no real good way to carry it other than to wear it.  Soldiers who did have it would often wear it, but when in a place that they could take it off, I am quite sure they did.
.....

Yes, it seems to be one of the key determining factors in the defeat of the 'Norwegians' at Stamford Bridge.

[Solmyr]

I have a friend who's into medieval armor and has a chain shirt. According to him, it's not something you'd enjoy wearing constantly - as was said, the weight is mostly on the shoulders. Plate (the type used in actual combat, not ceremonial full armor) is a different story, being much better distributed around your body, to the extent that you could swim or do cartwheels in it if you were fit enough.

[Admiral Yi]

From what I've read the biggest issue with armor was not the weight but the heat.

[Barrister]

A mail shirt isn't that heavy for a man in good shape, 20-30 pounds depending on how long (to hips or knees). Plus it's equally distributed across your body.

It's not distributed equally across your body.  Most of the weight is on your shoulders.

But that's exacty where you want to carry weight from.  Why do you think they make backpacks?

[Zanza]

But that's exacty where you want to carry weight from.  Why do you think they make backpacks?

Modern backbacks rest on your hips, no?

[Barrister]

But that's exacty where you want to carry weight from.  Why do you think they make backpacks?

Modern backbacks rest on your hips, no?

Some weight is transferred to your hips, yes, but in my experience the majority is on your shoulders.

[Maximus]

Some weight is transferred to your hips, yes, but in my experience the majority is on your shoulders.

I think most is on the hips. That's certainly how I wear mine and what I find most comfortable. Most of the forces on the shoulders are horizontal, for balance.

[Darth Wagtaros]

I'm really bad with weights and have no clue how much 30 pounds is but...surely modern soldiers carry around so much on their back when they're out marching?
And that's not very evenly distributed.

WWI infantrymen carried something like 250 lbs in their pack IIRC (I've got the actual numbers somewhere, but I'm not going to look it up--and of course if varied a bit from one country to another).  WWII soldiers didn't have that much of a load, and most modern infanty has a bit less than the WWII era I think, but it's still way more than 30 lbs, and as stated, it's not evenly distributed.

Not unless they were ants and could carry 2x their body weight.

[mongers]

Some weight is transferred to your hips, yes, but in my experience the majority is on your shoulders.

I think most is on the hips. That's certainly how I wear mine and what I find most comfortable. Most of the forces on the shoulders are horizontal, for balance.

I think a lot of this comes down to your build and gate, I have broader shoulders and relatively narrow hips, so didn't carry too much on the hips.

Also I've seem people walk/march effectively leaning somewhat forward, I presume then a significant part of the weight is being supported by the back itself.