Scotland To Vote On Independence In Late 2014

[mongers]

By the sound of it campaigning has already started:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/uk-scotland-16478121

Scotland to hold independence poll in 2014 - Salmond
10 January 12 20:17


Scotland plans to hold an independence referendum in the autumn of 2014, First Minister Alex Salmond has said.

He said this date would allow the Scottish people to make a "considered" decision on Scotland's future within the United Kingdom.

The news came as the UK government said a referendum would be unconstitutional without its authority.

It has said it wanted to work with the SNP-led administration amid a row over the timing and conditions for a poll.

Confirming the Scottish government's preferred date for a referendum, Mr Salmond - who wants Scotland to leave the UK - said holding a poll in 2014 would allow all the necessary legislation required to authorise it to be passed and for proper preparations to be made, he said.

'Made in Scotland'

Mr Salmond added: "The date for the referendum has to be the autumn of 2014. That's because this is the biggest decision that Scotland has made for 300 years. If you are going to do things properly and have the debate in the way it must be had then that is the date that we are going to move towards."

The referendum had "to be made in Scotland" and be approved by the Scottish Parliament and he warned the UK government about "trying to pull the strings behind the scenes".

He said: "What Scotland objects to is all the strings they (the UK government) are trying to to attach. They are trying to run a referendum by proxy."

Prime Minister David Cameron has warned that uncertainty over Scotland's future is damaging its economy and all three Unionist parties - the Conservatives, Labour and the Liberal Democrats - have called for any referendum vote to be held as soon as possible.

In a statement to MPs, Scottish Secretary Michael Moore said it was the government's "clear view" that the power to hold a referendum was "reserved" to Westminster under laws passed in 1998 paving the way for Scottish devolution and the Scottish government could not authorise a referendum on its own.

'Legal and fair'

The Lib Dem minister told MPs: "The consultation paper I am publishing today sets out different ways to deliver a legal, fair and decisive referendum.

"It explains how the powers for a referendum could be devolved under the Section 30 order-making provisions in the Scotland Act 1998 - our preferred approach.

"It also invites views on devolving the powers using other legislation, including the current Scotland Bill, and for opinions on the possibility of running the referendum directly.

"Given the clear legal problem that exists, we want to work with the Scottish government to provide the answer.

"This is not about the mandates of Scotland's two governments, or who calls the shots. It is about empowering the people of Scotland to participate in a legal referendum. That means that the UK government is willing to give the Scottish Parliament the powers to hold a referendum which they otherwise cannot do legally."

Mr Moore said the UK government was not suggesting a date for the poll in its consultation but it would recommend a single Yes or No question - rather than a third option such as increased financial powers for the Scottish government short of full independence.

'Clarity sought'

BBC Scotland's Political Editor Brian Taylor said the UK and Scottish governments were divided over the issue of the timing of the referendum, the question to be put to the public and who should oversee the voting process.

Among other areas yet to be clarified are whether the referendum will be legally binding or merely advisory and whether 16 and 17-year-olds should be allowed to vote - a proposal backed by the Scottish government but opposed by the UK government.

For Labour, the party's Scottish leader Johann Lamont called for cross-party talks in Scotland to determine the details of the referendum.

"At last a degree of clarity but this must just be the start," she said of Mr Salmond's announcement. "We need to know that there will be just one question, what that question is, and that the Electoral Commission will administer it."

And Ruth Davidson, the Conservatives' leader in Scotland, said the "decision has to be made by the Scottish people - not held up for years in the Scottish courts".

Personally I'd like to see a simultaneous vote in the rest of the UK asking if they wished to end the Union. 

[Razgovory]

What happens if the English vote to Kick the Scots out first?

[Ideologue]

"Vanguard force put on full alert."

[Sheilbh]

I like the idea that we have referendum day.  Scots, Welsh, and why not, the Cornish vote on independence, we all vote on EU membership and the X Factor final at once.

[Admiral Yi]

How much of the national debt will the hagis eaters be on the hook for?

[mongers]

I like the idea that we have referendum day.  Scots, Welsh, and why not, the Cornish vote on independence, we all vote on EU membership and the X Factor final at once.

By why disenfranchise the vast majority, 48 million or so,  in your plan ?

[Sheilbh]

How much of the national debt will the hagis eaters be on the hook for?

Lord knows.  That and other practicalities would be worked out afterwards.  It doesn't really matter at the minute.

The fiscal situation's an issue of contention though and it would be hell to work out.  The SNP claim that they've run a surplus for four of the past five years.  Which is true, unless you take away the Barnett formula money from the rest of the UK.  They would then counter that we've taken their North Sea oil (and levied taxes on it) that would probably counter that.

But then of course RBS would have tanked the Scots if they weren't in the Union so they'd look like Ireland.

[Valmy]

By why disenfranchise the vast majority, 48 million or so,  in you plan ?

They at least get a vote on the X Factor final.

[Admiral Yi]

Lord knows.  That and other practicalities would be worked out afterwards.  It doesn't really matter at the minute.

I'm not sure holders of British sovereigns would be totally enthusiastic with that approach.

[Sheilbh]

By why disenfranchise the vast majority, 48 million or so,  in you plan ?

They at least get a vote on the X Factor final.

And EU membership.

[Valmy]

And EU membership.

Maybe each county should get to vote in independence?  The Worcestershire Republic could dominate the sauce industry.

[Sheilbh]

Lord knows.  That and other practicalities would be worked out afterwards.  It doesn't really matter at the minute.

I'm not sure holders of British sovereigns would be totally enthusiastic with that approach.

It, like everything else would be settled after the vote.  It's not like the Scots vote 'yes' and the next day they're independent.  There'd be a long period of negotiations to settle things like national debt, the armed forces, the Monarchy (they want to keep it), things like central banking reserves and all the rest.  Even if they vote yes I imagine they'd only be independent by around 2020.

Also we've negative real interest rates on gilts so we can afford some worry.

[HVC]

How much of the national debt will the hagis eaters be on the hook for?

Lord knows.  That and other practicalities would be worked out afterwards.  It doesn't really matter at the minute

You'd think knowing how much debt you have due to your decision would be a pretty big priority for the voters

[Sheilbh]

And EU membership.

Maybe each county should get to vote in independence?  The Worcestershire Republic could dominate the sauce industry.

Most counties don't have identity.  I could happily get behind an independent Wessex though.  To use Dorset's motto, who's afeard? 

[Neil]

A winning idea.  The UK and EU benefit from having the Scots out of it, and the Scots get to control their own destiny.