The one-shot society

[DGuller]

It is like this.  You are the newcomer in the office.  Very soon you discover that everybody leaves at 8 or 9 in the evening, or even later.  Some even work on Sundays.  When you have conversations with people, the topic of "so and so is a slacker, see, he leaves at 7!  Hey, what time do you get off duty?" come up.  You don't care about any of that, and leave early anyway.  Then one morning, someone discreetly told you that your boss looked for you last night for an urgent task, but couldn't get hold of you.  So he asked someone else to do it anyway.  And from that day on, whenever you see your boss, it is no longer the same.  And next week, your boss is going to write your appraisal report, and that someone else's.  Then you get a phone call from HR saying there are rumours that you don't fit in the place well, and if they hear such rumours again they may have to "take action".  Yeah, there maybe application forms available to apply for OT compensation, but the officer in charge tells you that no one has ever applied for the past 40 years, and he is not sure what'll happen to you if you do fill in the form.  He is not discouraging you, he added. 

See what I mean?

That's why in civilized countries, it's illegal to volunteer extra hours at work (unless you're an exempt professional).  Or, more precisely, you can volunteer, but the employer is forced to pay you overtime, whether you asked for his permission or not.  It is well understood in such countries that laws designed to improve working conditions can be subverted by "volunteering", so laws have to deal with that.

[dps]

It is like this.  You are the newcomer in the office.  Very soon you discover that everybody leaves at 8 or 9 in the evening, or even later.  Some even work on Sundays.  When you have conversations with people, the topic of "so and so is a slacker, see, he leaves at 7!  Hey, what time do you get off duty?" come up.  You don't care about any of that, and leave early anyway.  Then one morning, someone discreetly told you that your boss looked for you last night for an urgent task, but couldn't get hold of you.  So he asked someone else to do it anyway.  And from that day on, whenever you see your boss, it is no longer the same.  And next week, your boss is going to write your appraisal report, and that someone else's.  Then you get a phone call from HR saying there are rumours that you don't fit in the place well, and if they hear such rumours again they may have to "take action".  Yeah, there maybe application forms available to apply for OT compensation, but the officer in charge tells you that no one has ever applied for the past 40 years, and he is not sure what'll happen to you if you do fill in the form.  He is not discouraging you, he added. 

See what I mean?

That's why in civilized countries, it's illegal to volunteer extra hours at work (unless you're an exempt professional).  Or, more precisely, you can volunteer, but the employer is forced to pay you overtime, whether you asked for his permission or not.  It is well understood in such countries that laws designed to improve working conditions can be subverted by "volunteering", so laws have to deal with that.

Right, unless the workers in question are salaried.  But there are rules about who can be salaried.  If you're just a clerk, you can't be put on salary just so your employer can avoid paying you overtime.

[Zanza]

That's why in civilized countries, it's illegal to volunteer extra hours at work (unless you're an exempt professional).  Or, more precisely, you can volunteer, but the employer is forced to pay you overtime, whether you asked for his permission or not.  It is well understood in such countries that laws designed to improve working conditions can be subverted by "volunteering", so laws have to deal with that.

In this civilized country, most overtime is unpaid and not compensated by free time either.

[Sheilbh]

Same here for the most part. Unless you're on an hourly rate you won't get overtime. Sometimes you'll get time in lieu, but that's more for working bank holidays or regularly having to work Saturday or Sunday (my old company had someone who worked a six day week because they had Saudi clients).

[The Brain]

Over here you often get overtime until you're in management. And then you often have a bonus system which means you're not really working extra for nothing.

[Monoriu]

That's why in civilized countries, it's illegal to volunteer extra hours at work (unless you're an exempt professional).  Or, more precisely, you can volunteer, but the employer is forced to pay you overtime, whether you asked for his permission or not.  It is well understood in such countries that laws designed to improve working conditions can be subverted by "volunteering", so laws have to deal with that.

If we implement this system, I forsee massive cuts in salary, to be replaced by overtime compensation.  So the result is the same: same level of salary, same level of overtime 

[Monoriu]

Anyway, if not exams, then what?  We need a way to differentiate, select and label the youths.  Exam is one way.  If we do away with one shot exams, there needs to be replacement methods of labelling people. 

[Richard Hakluyt]

A cheaper method would be to hold a lottery.

[Zanza]

How about multiple exams?

The grade that determines your university access here is based on the last two years of school with about a third from the final exams which are held within a week or so, another third from the grades you got in your major subjects over the two years and another third from the minor subjects over the two years.

[CountDeMoney]

Some of the most zealous workaholics in the HK civil service are Brits (we still have a few of them).  I know someone who jumped off the roof because of work pressure.  His boss was a Brit.

Damn, I wish I had a bunch of chinks working for me, so I could learn that trick.

[Darth Wagtaros]

Some of the most zealous workaholics in the HK civil service are Brits (we still have a few of them).  I know someone who jumped off the roof because of work pressure.  His boss was a Brit.

Damn, I wish I had a bunch of chinks working for me, so I could learn that trick.

Its not hard to jump off a building unless you decide to make a 2nd attempt.

[Monoriu]

How about multiple exams?

The grade that determines your university access here is based on the last two years of school with about a third from the final exams which are held within a week or so, another third from the grades you got in your major subjects over the two years and another third from the minor subjects over the two years.

The obvious problem is that (at least in HK), different schools have vastly different standards.  Under this system, there is also an incentive for school teachers to overgrade their students. 

[Neil]

No but it's crazy expensive.

And how.  I've got American classmates who are coming to London doing a two year LLB here because it's cheaper than law school in the US.  Then they go back and take the New York bar.

And then what...   

Then they make salads.

No, that's just lawyers that don't take the bar.

[HisMajestyBOB]

Oh, well that's only more depressing.  GOOD WORK.

I don't know about Korea, but in HK, there isn't much in terms of publicly funded or subsidized child care.  Parents often have to work very long hours, from 9-9.  It is also illegal to leave young children alone at home.  So unless you have grandparents or relatives who can look after the children, you have to send your children somewhere when they get off school.  Might as well be private tutoring.

From what I've heard, some parents like it when the teachers at my school scold and punish their kid, because they feel incapable of doing that themselves.

[Sheilbh]

No but it's crazy expensive.

And how.  I've got American classmates who are coming to London doing a two year LLB here because it's cheaper than law school in the US.  Then they go back and take the New York bar.

And then what...   

Oh Lord knows.  I don't spend a great deal of time with them.  They're in their early twenties and wear Brooks Brothers casually...

The obvious problem is that (at least in HK), different schools have vastly different standards.  Under this system, there is also an incentive for school teachers to overgrade their students. 

In the UK schools don't mark their own exams.  They're distributed through the system.