WoW [General Discussion]

[Martinus]

Well, if it means fewer abilities(like apparently psychic scream is gonna be a talent from the link) that's a good thing. 20 keybinds should be enough for anyone to pvp effectively.

Yeah. Plus it means the filler talents are gone too. I hated that for example on my lock I couldnt choose Curse of Exhaustion because I had to choose some boring +3% to crit talent instead to max out my dps.

[Eddie Teach]

Hey CDM if you're still around, got my druid to 85 and full vicious gear if you want to run lock/feral arenas.

[crazy canuck]

I'm very excited about the talent changes. Talent trees are gone. Woohoo.

Yeah, great.  Now everybody can be exactly the same.  And Kung Fu Pandas too.

I think we are seeing the beginning of the end for WoW I

[Grey Fox]

CC, everyone is already the same anyway.

[Liep]

I don't see how this will make players more the same. Now all you do is go to elitist jerk's forum and find the best talents, in MoP you have the optimal talents build into the spec and 18 abilities to choose from.

And there will be Kung Fu Trolls too.

[Eddie Teach]

Yeah, great.  Now everybody can be exactly the same.

Eh, sounds like there will be more variation rather than less.

[crazy canuck]

Yeah, great.  Now everybody can be exactly the same.

Eh, sounds like there will be more variation rather than less.

How so?

[Eddie Teach]

Because right now there's basically 3 ways to spec each class. From the looks of it, next expansion there will be disc priests with roots or chain fearing pets instead of psychic scream, as well as several other choices later down the road. There's still going to be a distinction between "discipline" "holy" and "shadow".

[crazy canuck]

Because right now there's basically 3 ways to spec each class. From the looks of it, next expansion there will be disc priests with roots or chain fearing pets instead of psychic scream, as well as several other choices later down the road. There's still going to be a distinction between "discipline" "holy" and "shadow".

What are you describing is that the main game play is going to be the same for everyone.  The flavour skills may differ but the only real difference is going to be gear.  Staying with the disc priest for a moment the main choice in the current version was whether to use the attack skills to heal (forget what it was called) or ignore that option and go with the straight heals.  There was a lot of debate on elitist jerks about which one to choose.  Now it looks like such choices, as restricted as they were compared to the old skill trees, will be gone.

[Eddie Teach]

Well, I know jack about raid healing so I'll put aside the priest for right now and consider the mage instead. All arcane mages have the same rotation, all fire mages have the same rotation, all frost mages have the same rotation. Fiddling around with the handful of "optional" talent points doesn't alter the way they pve.

PvP builds have slightly more variety, for instance an arcane mage might choose between going into frost for a root for cone of cold vs going into fire for impact/blazing speed. But they'll of course have all the goodies from the arcane tree. These kind of abilities affect the feel of the class in a way that 3% increased crit simply can't. And now you'll have to make a lot more choices about which ones you take.

[Martinus]

You guys are wrong. The specs are NOT gone. They are just divorced from the talents but you still choose different specs (with special, unique abilities and mastery) the way you do now. You just don't have a choice of abilities once you go into a spec - you get them like you get spells now, and they are like the current spec-start abilities plus the "must have" talents (e.g. you go Frost spec as a mage, you get abilities like +crit to frost spells and whatnot).

This gives more diversity, imo, than the current system when you are locked into a talent tree based on the choice of a spec.

Also, it seems there will be four specs, not three.

Essentially what the system does is you are not forced to forego the unique talent "perks" (the ones that stay as talents now) because you get the "plus to damage/crit" etc. "talents" as abilities based on your spec now.

[Liep]

What are you describing is that the main game play is going to be the same for everyone.  The flavour skills may differ but the only real difference is going to be gear.  Staying with the disc priest for a moment the main choice in the current version was whether to use the attack skills to heal (forget what it was called) or ignore that option and go with the straight heals.  There was a lot of debate on elitist jerks about which one to choose.  Now it looks like such choices, as restricted as they were compared to the old skill trees, will be gone.

Archangel is still an option in the priest talent trees. But now Holy can access it too. And you have to choose whether you want that or a proc of insta flash heal or a giant ball of holy light, ie aoe healing.

[crazy canuck]

What are you describing is that the main game play is going to be the same for everyone.  The flavour skills may differ but the only real difference is going to be gear.  Staying with the disc priest for a moment the main choice in the current version was whether to use the attack skills to heal (forget what it was called) or ignore that option and go with the straight heals.  There was a lot of debate on elitist jerks about which one to choose.  Now it looks like such choices, as restricted as they were compared to the old skill trees, will be gone.

Archangel is still an option in the priest talent trees. But now Holy can access it too. And you have to choose whether you want that or a proc of insta flash heal or a giant ball of holy light, ie aoe healing.

I see, so its more like picking a few optional spells rather than choosing how strong they would be be developing those talents within a spcific spec.

[Liep]

And of course, my guess is Blizzard wants all 6 choices to be hard and all 18 abilities to be attractive. That's likely not going to happen, but I do believe it'll be more exciting than having a few leftover points after you've placed the cookie cutter.

[Martinus]

I think the point is that, while there will always be better and worse choices, you will have greater freedom in making some sub-optimal choices that will not cripple your character completely, however.

For example, right now, Destruction build for a lock is so much worse than Affliction or even Demonology that you would get kicked from a raid if you show up full Destro. So if there was some utility/perk style talent from the Destruction tree that you really liked, you would have to either cripple yourself or forget about it. Now you will be able to choose it without as much overall consequence for your viability.

Essentially, talents will work a bit like Glyphs do now - and people do indeed have choices there, with even elitist jerks listing more than 3 viable glyphs of any tier for a specific build, depending on your playstyle/preference.