Of Men And Valour

[Siege]

This out of Lettow's post about southern valour.
Feel free to post your opinion.
Not that I have to invite you.
You mothefuckers hijack even your own damn threads.

Its true- It is valour & tradition, minus a comma and avoiding the yankee spelling of the word in favour of the correct one.
Although, the South -does- have a tradition of valour. Some of the best soldiers in the world.

Valour, tradition of valour.
Forgive me if I have very little regard for valour.
Its not that valour is not important for a soldier, it is just that in my experience people (as in nations and cultures) that cultivate valour as a virtue in itself, are people that have not been succesful in the field of arms.

Let me see if I can explain myself.

I come from a culture that see valour as a product of training and discipline. Discipline by Pride, not by Fear, and training as in actual combat focused training, not stupid D&C (Drill and Ceremony). As I've heard since I was a kid, valour without discipline and training is a feeble feeling. Valour is the product of discipline and training.

I don't give a flying fuck about how personally brave a person might be. Everybody BREAKS, everybody FLIES, sooner than later if you don't know what you are doing, if you have no training and no discipline. I don't give a fuck about your motivation or your hatred for your enemies. That's just bullshit. Hatred is not gonna keep you focused and/or motivated when the mission goes sour, when you have to go through thirst, hunger, all kinds of shortages and "inconviniances", as when other people fucks up and you have to pick up the slack, when your leadership don't know shit of what their are doing and sends you into harms way without a proper plan or coordination with friendly units.

War fucking sucks. It is a a hell of a lot more than just squeezing your damn trigger and killing your enemies. There is a price we all pay for this. Killing enemies is easy. Paying the price, losing your buddies, your brothers, is what kills a soldier's soul.

And you know what keeps a soldier going? Discipline and Training.

And believing that what you are doing is right.


Valour?
I don't believe in valour in war as an exceptional virtue.
I believe most soldiers placed in the wrong situation can be extremely valourous.
It is a product of their training and discipline.

I have seen many acts of valour through out my life. I have seen the skinny geeky guy with glasses that barely made the cut charge into an enemy improvised position, through a hail of bullets and keep going. I have seen the recent inmigrant that barely speaks the language get shot and keep fighting, refusing treatment from our medic untill our wounded have been treated and evacuated. I have seen the rookie butter-bar Lieutenant become a man in one day, get blown off and wounded, and still keep his cool and lead his guys into the enemy position.

And believe me, their bravery did not come from culture or hatred of their enemies.
Normal and regular guys, from a seemingly weak Western culture, but with the right kind of training and discipline.

And their bravery is beyond question.

[Scipio]

I believe that in this exchange, we have the classic teabagging of Lettow by Siegey.

[Habbaku]

Romance meets reality.  Good job, Siege.

[Liquid Poo]

I agree with Siegy.

It was the intense discipline and training that made the 9/11 hijackers the heroes that they are. Against the infidel, they displayed heroic courage and self sacrifice!

Allah Akbar!

[Siege]

I believe that in this exchange, we have the classic teabagging of Lettow by Siegey.

What do you mean?

I don't have a bad opinion of Lettow, other than he is racist.

I believe what makes people diferent is culture, not "race".


Racism seems very unjust to me. A guy, not matter even if he is muslim, have the right to westernize and change his ways.

I don't judge people by the color of their skins, but by their culture.

[grumbler]

I agree with Siegy.

It was the intense discipline and training that made the 9/11 hijackers the heroes that they are. Against the infidel, they displayed heroic courage and self sacrifice!

Allah Akbar!

  Weakest troll in Languish history?

You be the judge!

[grumbler]

I believe that in this exchange, we have the classic teabagging of Lettow by Siegey.

What do you mean?

It means you kicked his ass, soldier.

[Neil]

I believe that in this exchange, we have the classic teabagging of Lettow by Siegey.

What do you mean?

I don't have a bad opinion of Lettow, other than he is racist.

I believe what makes people diferent is culture, not "race".


Racism seems very unjust to me. A guy, not matter even if he is muslim, have the right to westernize and change his ways.

I don't judge people by the color of their skins, but by their culture.

Even you could act like a Westerner.  But you won't.

[Siege]

I agree with Siegy.

It was the intense discipline and training that made the 9/11 hijackers the heroes that they are. Against the infidel, they displayed heroic courage and self sacrifice!

Allah Akbar!

Suicide is easy for muslims.
You don't understand their culture.

When they flew those planes into the WTC, they were in control. They decided their fate and timing.
A firefight, however, is something you don't control.
No time for last prayer, no time to say goodbye to your own life.

I don;t have a good opinion of muslim valour, because I know how it works.
For muslims, its all about control.
I have seen them break too many times.
They work themselves mentally before doing anything.

[Barrister]

I can't really criticize anything Seigey said.

[Neil]

I can't really criticize anything Seigey said.

No matter how much I'd like to.  The only thing I can do is point out that no matter how disciplined or skilled he is, he's not really one of us.

[Siege]

I can't really criticize anything Seigey said.

No matter how much I'd like to. 

Whoa, that have to be the greatest prise you ever gave to me!

The only thing I can do is point out that no matter how disciplined or skilled he is, he's not really one of us.

Fuck you!

I need some fresh "Fuck U Neil" pictures.

[Viking]

I remember Napoleon saying something about 1 Mameluk being equal to 3 Frenchmen but 100 Frenchmen being equal to 1000 Mameluks. One of the exiled Spartan kings told Xerxes something similar about the Spartans.

[saskganesh]

somebody hacked seigy's account. remember his "warrior" threads?

anyhow, I gotta agree with the guy this time.

[Siege]

I remember Napoleon saying something about 1 Mameluk being equal to 3 Frenchmen but 100 Frenchmen being equal to 1000 Mameluks. One of the exiled Spartan kings told Xerxes something similar about the Spartans.

Well, I don't know about Nappy's time, but it certainly doesn't apply for our times.

I mean, one muslim terrorist for 3 american soldiers? 

That's either a regular infantry fireteam, a reconainsance team, or an sniper team.
In either case, no hope for your lonely brave muslim warrior. 


And a hundred american soldiers would wipe their asses with 10 000 regular arab/muslim soldiers.

Easily.

Now, terrorists, is a diferent ball game, because we can't get them all together in a nice and organized manner.