B.N. - US Navy Sinks Submarine Outside Key Naval Base.

[Tamas]

I of course do not approve the russian actions in '56 since it screwed my country over big time. But from a Russian point of view, letting Hungary go equaled losing their empire, since neither Poles, nor East Germans were to remain silent if Hungary was free to leave, and I guess the czechs and ROMAnians would had left as well.

That is why I don't like the "USA didnt help us, bastards!" rhetoric regardint hat revolution. Of course they didn't help. The Russians could not possibly back down on the issue, there was just no way.

[Razgovory]

The problem with the Geneva conventions and other war crimes laws is that they are counter to way normal laws work.  At least in a country where the laws are designed to protect people rather then exploit them.  The cost-benefit ratio for following the law in a normal civil society encourages me to follow the law.  If I rob a bank I may get a windfall of money but I face severe risk of imprisonment or even death.  It's not worth the risk.  In war, the positions are reversed.  Committing a war crime may very well save your life.  If I'm a soldier and I have to capture a hostile town tomorrow I have a much higher chance of survival if have the town blasted to rubble or hit with nerve gas.  I may face a possible court marshal, disgrace or even imprisonment but those aren't as bad as getting shot and killed.  If just use conventional artillery to destroy the town there's a good chance I won't even be called to answer for it.  At least if I'm on the winning side.

[DGuller]

The problem with the Geneva conventions and other war crimes laws is that they are counter to way normal laws work.  At least in a country where the laws are designed to protect people rather then exploit them.  The cost-benefit ratio for following the law in a normal civil society encourages me to follow the law.  If I rob a bank I may get a windfall of money but I face severe risk of imprisonment or even death.  It's not worth the risk.  In war, the positions are reversed.  Committing a war crime may very well save your life.  If I'm a soldier and I have to capture a hostile town tomorrow I have a much higher chance of survival if have the town blasted to rubble or hit with nerve gas.  I may face a possible court marshal, disgrace or even imprisonment but those aren't as bad as getting shot and killed.  If just use conventional artillery to destroy the town there's a good chance I won't even be called to answer for it.  At least if I'm on the winning side.

Agreed.  Laws should have an enforcement mechanism.  In the absence of an entity like a government, which has authority and monopoly on violence, the only ways to enforce laws is to retaliate, tit-for-tat.  Otherwise following the law just handicaps you for no benefit.  However, if you engage in tit-for-tat, you're branded a war criminal just as bad as the side who started the escalation.

[Malthus]

that quote was to point out the ridicoulity of expecting a formal DoW from Japan prior to the initial strike. Or from anyone. War is not a sport.

Geneva Convention, also ridiculous?

Look, I am viewing this from the point that a war between nations is a very lethal (haha) affair for your entire nation. It was since WW1 at least. If a leadership commits to it, it is OBLIGED to it's people to wage it in the most effective way possible, to minize it's own people's suffering.

So, giving proper warning to the future enemy so it can prepare it's defenses, drastically raising friendly casualities in the initial operations compared to a surprise attack, is borderline treason (starting the war can also be considered that, but let's assume it is fully justified from that country's point of view).

Other Geneva Convention stuff like mutual well-treating of PoWs and stuff is benefical for your own people so it's okay.

From what I understand, the Japanese intention was to deliver the DoW immediately *before* the attack (though not soon enough before to allow the US to prepare) - but their embassy screwed it up and delivered in *after*.

Not that this would make any big difference I suppose.

[The Brain]

that quote was to point out the ridicoulity of expecting a formal DoW from Japan prior to the initial strike. Or from anyone. War is not a sport.

Geneva Convention, also ridiculous?

Look, I am viewing this from the point that a war between nations is a very lethal (haha) affair for your entire nation. It was since WW1 at least. If a leadership commits to it, it is OBLIGED to it's people to wage it in the most effective way possible, to minize it's own people's suffering.

So, giving proper warning to the future enemy so it can prepare it's defenses, drastically raising friendly casualities in the initial operations compared to a surprise attack, is borderline treason (starting the war can also be considered that, but let's assume it is fully justified from that country's point of view).

Other Geneva Convention stuff like mutual well-treating of PoWs and stuff is benefical for your own people so it's okay.

From what I understand, the Japanese intention was to deliver the DoW immediately *before* the attack (though not soon enough before to allow the US to prepare) - but their embassy screwed it up and delivered in *after*.

Not that this would make any big difference I suppose.

No, Japanese-Americans were still going to be herded into concentration camps.

[Malthus]

No, Japanese-Americans were still going to be herded into concentration camps.

"Concentration camp" sounds so nasty.

How about "special funtime Hello Kitty anime camp"?

[The Brain]

No, Japanese-Americans were still going to be herded into concentration camps.

"Concentration camp" sounds so nasty.

How about "special funtime Hello Kitty anime camp"?

The horror. The horror.

[Malthus]

No, Japanese-Americans were still going to be herded into concentration camps.

"Concentration camp" sounds so nasty.

How about "special funtime Hello Kitty anime camp"?

The horror. The horror.

Well, at least it is better than "Camp Hentai'.

[hotshot]

And coincidentally I'm watching Pearl Harbor now on tv.

[Tamas]

And coincidentally I'm watching Pearl Harbor now on tv.

who the fuck are you?

[KRonn]

And coincidentally I'm watching Pearl Harbor now on tv.

who the fuck are you?

Great, a new forum member!!

[Jacob]

And coincidentally I'm watching Pearl Harbor now on tv.

who the fuck are you?

Some sort of hotshot.

[Maximus]

One of the New Exodites perhaps.