Belgium has a government!

[dps]

I can't believe any country's okay with a PM who wears bowties

Does he wear a fez?

[AnchorClanker]

I can't believe any country's okay with a PM who wears bowties

Does he wear a fez?

Only when he needs to woo the Moroccan immigrant demographic, I would imagine.

[Ed Anger]

It is about time morocco mole had his day in the sun.

[fhdz]

I can't believe any country's okay with a PM who wears bowties

Does he wear a fez?

I hear he ain't never gonna do it / without the fez on / oh no

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Oh, God.  Not this again.

Yes, this again. This is Belgium. Everything here is a communautarian issue even if belgian-nationalists keep shouting the opposite. Like Viking said: we're two countries: one with a center-right orientation, the other with a hard-left orientation.


And Sheilbh: yes, we know you don't understand. It's quite clear. Painfully so even.

A good place to start your understanding might be the book by Els Witte and Harry Van Velthoven,  "Strijden om Taal. De Belgische Taalkwestie in Historisch Perspectief", Pelckmans (publisher). It exists in French (probably 'Les Querelles linguistiques'*) and in english (probably 'Language in Contact and in Conflict'*). all three versions have nice tricolore covers too :p

*not quite sure about the titles of the translations. News is pretty scarce. I do know they exist as I saw them at the bookfair in Antwerp and was pleasantly surprised by their existence.

[Viking]

Belgian history since the middle ages is basically a series of resolutions by all the powers of europe that france should not get to conquer flanders (historically part of france) and french speaking wallonia (should be part of france) until it finally gets handed over to Holland after Holland loses it's empire only to have the Belgians themselves decide they refuse to be rules by Dutch Reformed Calvinists. At which point the Belgians get busy inventing the saxophone, african genocide and perfect beer and chocolate before they finally organize paedophilia.

Now that the Saxophone has been invented, the locals have learned genocide, beer, chocolate and paedophilia perfected they can get down to doing what they love most, hate each other.

If anything the government crisis has shown that a national government is not really needed.

[BVN]

Hooray for platitudes and hyperboles!

[Neil]

Why don't the Flems simply genocide the Walloons?  Belgians love that sort of thing, and it'd probably be the best solution for everyone.

[Razgovory]

Oh, God.  Not this again.

Yes, this again. This is Belgium. Everything here is a communautarian issue even if belgian-nationalists keep shouting the opposite. Like Viking said: we're two countries: one with a center-right orientation, the other with a hard-left orientation.


And Sheilbh: yes, we know you don't understand. It's quite clear. Painfully so even.

A good place to start your understanding might be the book by Els Witte and Harry Van Velthoven,  "Strijden om Taal. De Belgische Taalkwestie in Historisch Perspectief", Pelckmans (publisher). It exists in French (probably 'Les Querelles linguistiques'*) and in english (probably 'Language in Contact and in Conflict'*). all three versions have nice tricolore covers too :p

*not quite sure about the titles of the translations. News is pretty scarce. I do know they exist as I saw them at the bookfair in Antwerp and was pleasantly surprised by their existence.

We really don't care.  Split up, don't split up, it's all the same to us.  We really only have your word of it though.  It's not like there is a French speaking Belgian to give us the other side of the story.  I'll admit it is a plausible, though.  The Francophones seem to enamored with their own culture and language.  This is opposed to the Anglophone world where we just don't give a fuck.  We pride ourselves on how badly we can mangle our own language enjoy looting other cultures for stuff we like.

[Sheilbh]

We really don't care.  Split up, don't split up, it's all the same to us. 

This is broadly my view.

One thought I had today though was that this does look almost like a linguistic version of the traditional Dutch pillarisation of society (is that the phrase?) where you've no national institutions but, in the Netherlands I think, religious and ideological ones.  So there's a Catholic trade union, a Socialist trade union and a Protestant trade union and that goes for almost all institutions traditionally in the Netherlands.  I think it's a legacy of historical religious conflict, but I could be wrong.

From that I wondered if that's perhaps why there seems to have been a particular difficulty with immigration and integration in the Low Countries.  My impression at least is that it's caused more problems for the Dutch and Belgians than even other 'homogenous' Euro-states.  Maybe there's inevitably going to be conflict if you've immigrant who don't fit within a traditional 'pillar' if your society has a principle of people doing their own thing semi-independently and in parallel rather than through a more 'national' set of institutions.

That could all just be bullshit though and I think the Dutch depillared in the 70s anyway...

[MadImmortalMan]

Here's some advice for Ivan. If Flanders does secede, don't join the euro.   

[Ideologue]

Oh, God.  Not this again.

Yes, this again. This is Belgium. Everything here is a communautarian issue even if belgian-nationalists keep shouting the opposite. Like Viking said: we're two countries: one with a center-right orientation, the other with a hard-left orientation.


And Sheilbh: yes, we know you don't understand. It's quite clear. Painfully so even.

A good place to start your understanding might be the book by Els Witte and Harry Van Velthoven,  "Strijden om Taal. De Belgische Taalkwestie in Historisch Perspectief", Pelckmans (publisher). It exists in French (probably 'Les Querelles linguistiques'*) and in english (probably 'Language in Contact and in Conflict'*). all three versions have nice tricolore covers too :p

*not quite sure about the titles of the translations. News is pretty scarce. I do know they exist as I saw them at the bookfair in Antwerp and was pleasantly surprised by their existence.

We really don't care.  Split up, don't split up, it's all the same to us.  We really only have your word of it though.  It's not like there is a French speaking Belgian to give us the other side of the story.  I'll admit it is a plausible, though.  The Francophones seem to enamored with their own culture and language.  This is opposed to the Anglophone world where we just don't give a fuck.  We pride ourselves on how badly we can mangle our own language enjoy looting other cultures for stuff we like.

I care.  Secession from a democracy is evil.  If the Flems secede, I hope they're nuked by the Walloons' co-francophones in the Force de Frappe.

[Habbaku]

Secession from a democracy is evil.

[Neil]

Don't think of it as secession.  Think of it as the ejection of the Walloons.

Besides, only a Sith deals in absolutes.

[Razgovory]

I care.  Secession from a democracy is evil.  If the Flems secede, I hope they're nuked by the Walloons' co-francophones in the Force de Frappe.

Not if done by democratic means.  If then want to divide up their own country, I'm sure there is a lawful, peaceful way to do so.  Czechoslovakia split up fairly nicely.  It took several years for the economy to adjust (though that might be also because they switched from communism to capitalism at the same time.