Who will be the Republican Nominee for President (post Cain)

[Berkut]

I'm not just using my personal experience.  But, anyway, we can go round and round with this, like always.  I don't have the time for that right now.

I am sure you don't. But that is fine - the bigger point has been made. Just another datum of how DG is so ready to suspend any kind of critical analysis when it comes to slandering Republicans.

The point has been made, but as  usual it's a point full of shit. 

No, sadly it is not. What is full of shit is you making claims like "The Republicans picked up the racist vote". It is so full of shit on so many levels it isn't even funny. The fact that you know you cannot back it up at all is kind of funny though, and your pretense that suddenly you are too bust to post and defend such a moronic claim is downright hilarious.

Trying to insert the last word in when I declare my lack of availability to continue this inane debate won't change that.

Yeah, I don't believe you. You don't have time because you know that all the time in the world won't make your claim sound anymore rational. You know as well as everyone else that you are completely full of shit.

What is really amusing is that I bet you don't even see the rather obvious parallel between the way you look at the hated Republicans and are perfectly willing to just make up crap to believe about them no matter how unsupported or outlandish, and how traditional racists looked at whatever "other" they hated. It is all the same root cause...

[DGuller]

Well, I am studying for an online actuarial exam right now on another screen, and refreshing Languish way more than I should be, and thus got sucked into this.  My exam is on Tuesday morning, so I should really just let you froth.  This is my final final post on this.

[Berkut]

Well, I am studying for an online actuarial exam right now on another screen, and refreshing Languish way more than I should be, and thus got sucked into this.  My exam is on Tuesday morning, so I should really just let you froth.  This is my final final post on this.

Froth? I am not the one slinging about accusations of racism DG. You are the one doing all the frothing here.

But good luck on your exam in any case.

[Razgovory]

You are right about that - you certainly are not very complicated.

You just keep playing that race card in your overly simple manner. You and Raz.

If you had been following the discussion you'd see that the race card was played.  Not by us, but by Lew Rockwell, Murray Rothbard, and possibly Ron Paul.  I'm not portraying Ron Paul as the face of conservatism.  Perhaps the libertarian wing of the GOP but not the GOP as a whole.  In fact, I think the libertarian wing is quite weak.

The discussion has been how much was connected to his own series of news letters.  The news letters had racist language in them and had racist themes.  Nobody has denied that.  The question has been about how much Ron Paul had to do with them.  Dguller and I thought he had a lot to do with them, while some have suggested that these nasty news letters were essentially written behind his back.

[Razgovory]

OK, lets see the stats that show that most racists are Republicans. Lets see the study, the statistical analysis, the reasoning for why we should accept your claim that this is true.

Here is what I know, although it is rather weak evidence, being based on personal experience only. I know personally very few people who I would consider to hold racist views. In fact, prior to moving to upstate New York, I didn't really know any.

But since moving here, I run into people every now and again who think nothing of saying something like "That nigger Obama..." and then some stupid shit about whatever. Or just bitching about black people, or immigrants in general. And you know what? They are all middle class, union card carrying members of the Democratic Party, like most everyone in my wife's family demographic. Now, not everyone in my wife's rather large family is like that of course, but everyone in my wife's family IS a democrat.

The idea that one party has some kind of monopoly or even lions share of the "racist vote" is ridiculous. You pulled that straight out of your ass based on idiotic stereotypes, probably about Southerners in general is my guess.

I will provide you with something that may help.  This is more about "Tea Party" rather then "Republican", but there is great deal of overlap, so it's a starting point. 

http://depts.washington.edu/uwiser/racepolitics.html

Many believed that the election of Barack Obama brought to a close the long, painful, and ugly history of race and racism in the United States. But as the incident with Henry Louis Gates last summer, and the more recent outbursts of the Tea Party activists suggest, racial divisions remain. Which is closer to the truth? A recent survey directed by University of Washington political scientist Christopher Parker, finds that America is definitely not beyond race. For instance, the Tea Party, the grassroots movement committed to reining in what they perceive as big government, and fiscal irresponsibility, also appear predisposed to intolerance. Approximately 45% of Whites either strongly or somewhat approve of the movement. Of those, only 35% believe Blacks to be hardworking, only 45 % believe Blacks are intelligent, and only 41% think that Blacks are trustworthy. Perceptions of Latinos aren't much different. While 54% of White Tea Party supporters believe Latinos to be hardworking, only 44% think them intelligent, and even fewer, 42% of Tea Party supporters believe Latinos to be trustworthy. When it comes to gays and lesbians, White Tea Party supporters also hold negative attitudes. Only 36% think gay and lesbian couples should be allowed to adopt children, and just 17% are in favor of same-sex marriage.

[Eddie Teach]

In my personal experience, everyone who is a racist is an urban dweller, and urban dwellers are notorious Democrat voters.     Maybe you have a point.  Or maybe you're just committing a probabilistic fallacy of your own while chiding me on lack of statistical rigor.

So you don't have either studies or anecdotal evidence to back your claim, yet you feel confident in it anyway. 

[Berkut]

In my personal experience, everyone who is a racist is an urban dweller, and urban dwellers are notorious Democrat voters.     Maybe you have a point.  Or maybe you're just committing a probabilistic fallacy of your own while chiding me on lack of statistical rigor.

So you don't have either studies or anecdotal evidence to back your claim, yet you feel confident in it anyway. 

You cannot blame the guy for his faith!

[grumbler]

I do think that Republicans picked up the racists when Democrats dumped them in 1960ies...

The ones that the Democrats dumped, yes, for the most part (I don't see a lot of independent racists; that's not how they work).  The Democrats only dumped a portion of their racists, though.

[Sheilbh]

I don't mind them saying he is THAT voice at all.

My point is that the reason THIS issue has legs is that DG and Raz want him to be the voice of the racists in the Republican party, because they very much want it to be the case that the Republican part is all about racism.

Of course, "racism" as a political concept has not existed in US politics in a generation, but why let that stop you? It is so juicy and exciting! Oh, Paul is going after the KKK vote!

Okay.  I broadly agree.

I don't think the Republicans are racist, personally.  And I think you're probably right about blue collar casual racism.  It's certainly true in this country the majority of people who switch to vote BNP are Labour voters and I don't necessarily think they're actually all bigots I think a lot of them are  basically sold a lot of bullshit by the BNP.

What I don't get though is why many Republicans never seem to want to work out why minority groups don't vote for them.  I don't think it's just because they're too busy enjoying being 'victims' and looking for affirmative action'.  I think there's a tone of debate about these issues that would make many potential Republican voters back away - the idea from one Republican candidate of having a electrified fence on the US-Mexico border, for example.

And in terms of racism in politics now I think it'll be dog-whistle, deniable stuff like Newt Gingrich's phrase that Obama's a 'food-stamp President'.  I don't know if Gingrich is in any way racist but I think that sort of line is clearly dog-whistle politics and, if he gets called on it, Gingrich can react like Captain Reynaud and win sympathy from some as a victim of the 'race card' being played on him.

[dps]

I'm not just using my personal experience.  But, anyway, we can go round and round with this, like always.  I don't have the time for that right now.

My personal experience is that almost everyone has some racists thoughts, beliefs, or sentiments;  whether or not they admit it even to themselves.  And there are more registered Democrats than Republicans, so I'd have to say that there are more racists Democrats than racist Republicans.  OTOH, as best as I can tell, the Republican party is narrowing the registration gap, so I guess that it would be accurate to say that racists have been moving from the Democratic party to the Republican party--except that (again, as best as I can tell) the Republicans haven't been gaining in registration, just narrowing the gap because the Democrats have been losing registered voters to the independent ranks moreso than the Republicans.  So the overall conclusion is that more and more racists are abandoning the 2 dominant parties to join the independent ranks.

OK, a lot of that was tongue-in-cheek.  But overall, I agree with Berkut--I don't think that blatantly racists can really find much comfort in either party.   

Of those, only 35% believe Blacks to be hardworking, only 45 % believe Blacks are intelligent, and only 41% think that Blacks are trustworthy.

I don't think that blacks, as a group, are hardworking, intelligent, or trustworthy.  But I also don't think that whites, as a group, are hardworking, intelligent, or trustworthy.  That makes me either a cynic or misanthrope, not a racist.

[Berkut]

Of those, only 35% believe Blacks to be hardworking, only 45 % believe Blacks are intelligent, and only 41% think that Blacks are trustworthy.

I don't think that blacks, as a group, are hardworking, intelligent, or trustworthy.  But I also don't think that whites, as a group, are hardworking, intelligent, or trustworthy.  That makes me either a cynic or misanthrope, not a racist.

The interesting part of that article is that if you actually look at the data (ignoring for the moment the rather bizarre intent of the study), you will find that it turns out that nearly everyone is "racist" by the definition of the study authors.

[dps]

Of those, only 35% believe Blacks to be hardworking, only 45 % believe Blacks are intelligent, and only 41% think that Blacks are trustworthy.

I don't think that blacks, as a group, are hardworking, intelligent, or trustworthy.  But I also don't think that whites, as a group, are hardworking, intelligent, or trustworthy.  That makes me either a cynic or misanthrope, not a racist.

The interesting part of that article is that if you actually look at the data (ignoring for the moment the rather bizarre intent of the study), you will find that it turns out that nearly everyone is "racist" by the definition of the study authors.

Most studies find what they set out to find.  Set out to find racists, you'll find racism everywhere.  Set out to find tolerance, well, you won't find it everywhere, but you will find it to be fairly common in the West.

[Razgovory]

Of those, only 35% believe Blacks to be hardworking, only 45 % believe Blacks are intelligent, and only 41% think that Blacks are trustworthy.

I don't think that blacks, as a group, are hardworking, intelligent, or trustworthy.  But I also don't think that whites, as a group, are hardworking, intelligent, or trustworthy.  That makes me either a cynic or misanthrope, not a racist.

The interesting part of that article is that if you actually look at the data (ignoring for the moment the rather bizarre intent of the study), you will find that it turns out that nearly everyone is "racist" by the definition of the study authors.

Bizarre intent?  This is exactly what you asked for.  Please elaborate on your statement.

[Berkut]

Of those, only 35% believe Blacks to be hardworking, only 45 % believe Blacks are intelligent, and only 41% think that Blacks are trustworthy.

I don't think that blacks, as a group, are hardworking, intelligent, or trustworthy.  But I also don't think that whites, as a group, are hardworking, intelligent, or trustworthy.  That makes me either a cynic or misanthrope, not a racist.

The interesting part of that article is that if you actually look at the data (ignoring for the moment the rather bizarre intent of the study), you will find that it turns out that nearly everyone is "racist" by the definition of the study authors.

Bizarre intent?  This is exactly what you asked for.  Please elaborate on your statement.

No, it isn't. A study that purports to show that Tea Party people have more intolerant view points than the general population (but only by some marginal amount - turns out that apaprently 70% of the general white population is 'racist' in the studies view that someone who says black people should work harder is racist) has zero bearing on whether Republicans "got all the racists" as DG claims.

I sure as hell am not going to be put in the position of defending the Tea Party people.

[Berkut]

It is rather telling that Raz immediately makes exactly the same error that got the discussion going - finding some selected group (a group in this case rather than a particular person) and using them as a stand in for the Republican Party.

A good move politically, and one I am surprised the Dems have not done a better job exploiting, but it isn't particularly intellectually honest.