First Amendment Under Attack

[Barrister]

I thought there was something in the civil service regs about political acitivity.  No volunteering for campaigns, that kind of stuff.

There are.  Up here volunteering for campaigns is fine, but I have to stay out of any public role.  But I can stuff all the envelopes that I want to.

BB you should re-read the applicable sections of the Public Service Act.  You are even able to run for public office with consent.  Your notion expressed early in the thread of complete impartiality of all public servants has not been accurate since 1991 (the date of the SCC Osborne case).

I could run for office - as long as I took a leave without pay to do so.

[Ideologue]

I thought there was something in the civil service regs about political acitivity.  No volunteering for campaigns, that kind of stuff.

There are.  Up here volunteering for campaigns is fine, but I have to stay out of any public role.  But I can stuff all the envelopes that I want to.

could you do pro-bono work for a politician? I don't know what that would entail. Editing legal stuff like bills and the like i guess.

Actual, since you're working for the crown, can you do any other kind of legal work? or is that looked down upon?

The problem is insurance.  Working for the government I don't carry any professional liability insurance (government self-insures), which means if I did legal work outside of work I would have no insurance.

Plus pro bono work is supposed to be work that helps the community.  But my work already helps the community.

Also conflicts, I would think?  Unless you were practicing out of the criminal sphere.

[Barrister]

I thought there was something in the civil service regs about political acitivity.  No volunteering for campaigns, that kind of stuff.

There are.  Up here volunteering for campaigns is fine, but I have to stay out of any public role.  But I can stuff all the envelopes that I want to.

could you do pro-bono work for a politician? I don't know what that would entail. Editing legal stuff like bills and the like i guess.

Actual, since you're working for the crown, can you do any other kind of legal work? or is that looked down upon?

The problem is insurance.  Working for the government I don't carry any professional liability insurance (government self-insures), which means if I did legal work outside of work I would have no insurance.

Plus pro bono work is supposed to be work that helps the community.  But my work already helps the community.

Also conflicts, I would think?  Unless you were practicing out of the criminal sphere.

There's that too.

[crazy canuck]

I thought there was something in the civil service regs about political acitivity.  No volunteering for campaigns, that kind of stuff.

There are.  Up here volunteering for campaigns is fine, but I have to stay out of any public role.  But I can stuff all the envelopes that I want to.

BB you should re-read the applicable sections of the Public Service Act.  You are even able to run for public office with consent.  Your notion expressed early in the thread of complete impartiality of all public servants has not been accurate since 1991 (the date of the SCC Osborne case).

I could run for office - as long as I took a leave without pay to do so.

That is just one small example of where you were wrong.

[HVC]

that's a weird loop hole. "As a civil servant you can still run for public office... you just can't come to work or get paid"

[crazy canuck]

that's a weird loop hole. "As a civil servant you can still run for public office... you just can't come to work or get paid"

It is almost impossible to fire a civil servant so job tenure is important.  Being able to take a leave of absence to run for political office is therefore a significant advantage.   

[Barrister]

I thought there was something in the civil service regs about political acitivity.  No volunteering for campaigns, that kind of stuff.

There are.  Up here volunteering for campaigns is fine, but I have to stay out of any public role.  But I can stuff all the envelopes that I want to.

BB you should re-read the applicable sections of the Public Service Act.  You are even able to run for public office with consent.  Your notion expressed early in the thread of complete impartiality of all public servants has not been accurate since 1991 (the date of the SCC Osborne case).

I could run for office - as long as I took a leave without pay to do so.

That is just one small example of where you were wrong.

I already knew that.  I haven't been trying to lay out a comprehensive listing of what public servants can or can not do.

[HVC]

that's a weird loop hole. "As a civil servant you can still run for public office... you just can't come to work or get paid"

It is almost impossible to fire a civil servant so job tenure is important.  Being able to take a leave of absence to run for political office is therefore a significant advantage.  

oh right, forgot about tenure. Could someone, in theory, who worked for 5 years take leave get appointed for say 25 years and then come back at 30 years tenure? or is there a cut off point?

[jimmy olsen]

It's the government acting with dominium, not imperium.

We Yanks live in a real democracy, not some bastardized wannabe neo-Roman Empire with periodic voting. 

[dps]

How the hell this is the case of the First Amendment at all???

It is government action imposing a deleterious consqeunce on a citizen for the sole reason that that citizen exercised his speech rights in a particular way.

How could not not be a First Amendment issue?

It's the government acting with dominium, not imperium. As such its actions are no different than those of a private company.

At least up here, the government (and NOT private business) must comply with the Charter of Rights in everything that it does.  You'd never say "well the government should be treated like a private company" when it comes to respecting human rights.

It's not considered a human right to hold a government job, is it? 

Not a rhetorical question--I certainly wouldn't hold that there is a human right to hold a government job, but I have no idea what the Canadian courts would say about it.

[Valmy]

It's not considered a human right to hold a government job, is it? 

Not a rhetorical question--I certainly wouldn't hold that there is a human right to hold a government job, but I have no idea what the Canadian courts would say about it.

Pretty sure it is a question of what your rights are when you hold a government job, not that you have a right to said job.

[Ideologue]

It's not considered a human right to hold a government job, is it? 

[crazy canuck]

I already knew that.  I haven't been trying to lay out a comprehensive listing of what public servants can or can not do.

Earlier you were taking the line that a public servant had to be apolitical and could not express a public political view.  That is incorrect as such a wide restriction is contrary to the Charter - see Osborne.

[crazy canuck]

Could someone, in theory, who worked for 5 years take leave get appointed for say 25 years and then come back at 30 years tenure? or is there a cut off point?

I would assume that the length of time away would be a factor in whether to grant consent.

[Barrister]

that's a weird loop hole. "As a civil servant you can still run for public office... you just can't come to work or get paid"

It is almost impossible to fire a civil servant so job tenure is important.  Being able to take a leave of absence to run for political office is therefore a significant advantage.   

oh right, forgot about tenure. Could someone, in theory, who worked for 5 years take leave get appointed for say 25 years and then come back at 30 years tenure? or is there a cut off point?

Well for starters you certainly wouldn't come back at 30 years tenure.