Language Police to Force Children to Speak French During Recess

[HVC]

"Remember, we speak French. It's good for you." lol. that's just creepy.

it ain't any different than what was done in Ontario, New Brunswick, various other provinces and the US for non-english speakers.  Without the beatings of course.

they went around doing that during people spare time (which is what recess is)? I have no problem with making  kids speak french in class, but doing so during recess just strikes me as very similar to going around to all the immigrant kids and telling them to "speak white".

[grumbler]

it ain't any different than what was done in Ontario, New Brunswick, various other provinces and the US for non-english speakers.  Without the beatings of course. 

Can't speak for Ontario, etc in Canada, but I am aware of no US school system that enforces an "English-only playground" rule.  Maybe you meant the UK?

I also am not aware of any beatings that Quebec is proposing (as compared, you note, with these other places).  Got any more details?

But it's still a dumb move, and I doubt it will become official policy.  Because that is not official policy, contrary to what the National Post is reporting (the NP getting its facts wrong about Quebec, how can it be?? ... ).  The school board asked parents in a survey if they tought it was a good idea, 70% of them said so.

Who is this "Diane De Courcy," then, whom the NP erroneously reports is the chair of the Commission scolaire de Montréal?  She clearly doesn't know that this isn't official policy.  "She said the policy, which will come fully into effect in September, is needed to improve the French performance of students..."  What do you know that she does not?

What the NP isn't saying, is it's a measure to decrease dropout rate and increase success at french exams.  Kids apparently lack proper practice of french.  No different than teachers insisting we speak correct french while in the corridors, when I was in elementary school.

Imho, still a dumb move, but justifiable given the rational objectives aimed at.

Why is it "dumb" if it is no different than what happened to you when you were walking to and from school (three miles uphill each way in the snow, I'm guessing ), and is rational and justified? 

The beatings part would be dumb, but the story doesn't mention that (maybe because this Diane De Courcy person doesn't know about them, or maybe because that is just the NP getting its facts wrong about Quebec, how can it be??).

[viper37]

they went around doing that during people spare time (which is what recess is)? I have no problem with making  kids speak french in class, but doing so during recess just strikes me as very similar to going around to all the immigrant kids and telling them to "speak white".

yes, they did.  There weren't much french schools in Canada until the 70s.  Before that, it was a verbotten language, or subject to administration by english school boards (thanks to Sir Wilfrid Laurier).

And recess in high school isn't really spare time, it's more a "no class time".  You usually have cultural and sport activities to attend.

[Jacob]

And recess in high school isn't really spare time, it's more a "no class time".  You usually have cultural and sport activities to attend.

[Grey Fox]

In High school my recess was "You now have 15min to get to your other class".

[Ideologue]

We didn't have recess in HS.  The break was lunch.

[viper37]

Can't speak for Ontario, etc in Canada, but I am aware of no US school system that enforces an "English-only playground" rule.  Maybe you meant the UK?

check your history books?  Louisiana kids were beaten for speaking french in schools.  Same in Massachussets around the turn of the 20th century.
Same happenned in Canada for Métis, indian and French kids.  English or beating, your choice.
And then they can proudly say "there's not enough french speakers to justify a school".

Who is this "Diane De Courcy," then, whom the NP erroneously reports is the chair of the Commission scolaire de Montréal?  She clearly doesn't know that this isn't official policy.  "She said the policy, which will come fully into effect in September, is needed to improve the French performance of students..."  What do you know that she does not?

Wrong quote from the National Post?  I don't know.  All I know is it ain't official policy yet.

Why is it "dumb" if it is no different than what happened to you when you were walking to and from school (three miles uphill each way in the snow, I'm guessing ), and is rational and justified? 

First, it's not about what you speak on your way to school, it's about what you speak while inside the school (or the courtyard).
It is dumb, because it won't work.  It can't be enforced as teachers watching the kids can't really get close enough to listen to them while at the same time watching for fights, or injured kids.
And I don't see the harm in kids speaking arab or chinese among themselves in the school yards.  It won't convince them that French is cool, it won't make them speak better french.  As soon as they're back home, they'll revert to their primary language, with French as a 2nd or 3rd language.  Such is the nature of immigration.

The beatings part would be dumb, but the story doesn't mention that (maybe because this Diane De Courcy person doesn't know about them, or maybe because that is just the NP getting its facts wrong about Quebec, how can it be??).

No beatings in Quebec schools.  Not that some kids wouldn't deserve it, but corporal punishment is judged to be retarded ever since we kicked out religion of our public schools.  I know, it hurts to be that liberal, but we nonetheless survive

[viper37]

And recess in high school isn't really spare time, it's more a "no class time".  You usually have cultural and sport activities to attend.

you're still in school, subject to the school's rules, and have obligation to attend sports&cultural activities or do your homeworks under supervision, if need be.
I can't call that "spare time".  Spare time, is when I do what I want.  If I'm still subject to the dress code of the school and have a precise schedule to meet, I can't call that "spare time".  Just like phys-ed is not spare time.

[garbon]

And recess in high school isn't really spare time, it's more a "no class time".  You usually have cultural and sport activities to attend.

you're still in school, subject to the school's rules, and have obligation to attend sports&cultural activities or do your homeworks under supervision, if need be.
I can't call that "spare time".  Spare time, is when I do what I want.  If I'm still subject to the dress code of the school and have a precise schedule to meet, I can't call that "spare time".  Just like phys-ed is not spare time.

Walking between classes is spare time.

[HVC]

We didn't have recess in HS.  The break was lunch.

Ya, we had lunch and spares.

[HVC]

yes, they did.  There weren't much french schools in Canada until the 70s.  Before that, it was a verbotten language, or subject to administration by english school boards (thanks to Sir Wilfrid Laurier).

And recess in high school isn't really spare time, it's more a "no class time".  You usually have cultural and sport activities to attend.

Never heard about punishment outside of the class, but i'll take your word for it. in which case it was stupid then and stupid now. Two wrongs don't make a right, and what not. as for the beatings, everything was beatings in those days. write with teh wrong hand. beating. interupt class. beating. look at the teacher funny. beating. and so on

[dps]

And recess in high school isn't really spare time, it's more a "no class time".  You usually have cultural and sport activities to attend.

you're still in school, subject to the school's rules, and have obligation to attend sports&cultural activities or do your homeworks under supervision, if need be.
I can't call that "spare time".  Spare time, is when I do what I want.  If I'm still subject to the dress code of the school and have a precise schedule to meet, I can't call that "spare time".  Just like phys-ed is not spare time.

In our schools, "recess" was unorganized play time, and as Ide pointed out we didn't have that in high school--it was essentially an elementary and middle school thing.  Doing homework under supervision while outside of class was "study hall".

[grumbler]

check your history books?  Louisiana kids were beaten for speaking french in schools.  Same in Massachussets around the turn of the 20th century.

None of my history books say that any Louisiana kids are currently being beaten for speaking French on the playgrounds.  If you are arguing that Quebec is the cultural or educational equivalent of Louisiana in the 919th C  or Massachusetts at the turn of the 20th, I'd have to say I think you are totally full of shit.  You cannot justify actions today based on repudiated actions of people a century or two ago.

Same happenned in Canada for Métis, indian and French kids.  English or beating, your choice.
And then they can proudly say "there's not enough french speakers to justify a school".

This is Quebec's model?  That's pretty fucked up.

Wrong quote from the National Post?  I don't know.  All I know is it ain't official policy yet.

Got a cite?  I think you lose the credibility battle here in a rout.  If the head of the board thinks it is a policy and all the counter-argument I have is a naked assertion by somebody who thinks the model for language education was set by people in the 19th C, I know what i am going to believe.

First, it's not about what you speak on your way to school, it's about what you speak while inside the school (or the courtyard).
It is dumb, because it won't work.  It can't be enforced as teachers watching the kids can't really get close enough to listen to them while at the same time watching for fights, or injured kids.

You said it was no different than what worked on you when you were in school.  what has changed?  More kids injured?

And I don't see the harm in kids speaking arab or chinese among themselves in the school yards.  It won't convince them that French is cool, it won't make them speak better french.  As soon as they're back home, they'll revert to their primary language, with French as a 2nd or 3rd language.  Such is the nature of immigration.

That wasn't true when you were in school?

No beatings in Quebec schools.  Not that some kids wouldn't deserve it, but corporal punishment is judged to be retarded ever since we kicked out religion of our public schools.  I know, it hurts to be that liberal, but we nonetheless survive

Really?  You Quebec guys are modelling your policies based on 19thC Louisiana and early 20C Massachusetts, but refusing to commit to the hard parts?  I predict a fail.  Of course, there are no beatings in any modern schools system in the world either, but you don't seem to mind that "modern" Quebec language policies in education "ain't any different than what was done in Ontario, New Brunswick, various other provinces and the US for non-english speakers" in the remote past.

To most of us moderns, those policies (which we abandoned long ago) appear creepy.  But since we all agree that they are doomed to failure, I guess this is just another case of the public laughing at boneheaded bureaucrats trying to roll boulders up hills.

[crazy canuck]

This nonsense shows what cultural insecurity can do to a society.  Why couldnt they have just tell children that it would be a good idea to practice speaking french on their own time.  Why the need for monitors?  Wouldnt resources be better spent actually teaching?

[Oexmelin]

What monitors? What ressources?