Ubisoft games - poster children for piracy?

[garbon]

Now you can go download from a torrent site, sure - but you have to go through the entire mounting rigamorole to get it to install, right? All those ISO files and whatever.

You download a mounter once and that's about it.

[dps]

What your example shows is that just like the Crysis example, popular games sell a lot and get pirated a lot.

Well, d'oh.  Of course a popular game is both going to sell a lot and be pirated a lot.  And guess what--an unpopular game isn't going to sell a lot, nor will it be pirated a lot.  Unless there's some reason to believe that the gaming tastes of those who pirate games differs from the gaming tastes of those who don't (and AFAIK, there isn't any such reason), then of course there's going to be some correlation.  That doesn't really tell us anything.

But on a certain level, a popular game doesn't really illustrate the problem.  Sure, if I produced a game that sold well, and was also pirated 4 million times, even if we use your figure of only 1 in 50 of those pirated games represent a lost sale, as Raz pointed out, at $50 a game, that's like $6M is lost revenue.  I made money off the game, but I lost $6M to pirates--I'd be pissed off, too.  But would I do it all over again?  Sure, because I still made money on the game.  But what if the game isn't a hit?  The revenue lost to pirates could very well be the difference between making and losing money.  And at some point, that has to become enough of a risk to deter the development of games for the PC.

[Berkut]

What your example shows is that just like the Crysis example, popular games sell a lot and get pirated a lot.

Well, d'oh.  Of course a popular game is both going to sell a lot and be pirated a lot.  And guess what--an unpopular game isn't going to sell a lot, nor will it be pirated a lot.  Unless there's some reason to believe that the gaming tastes of those who pirate games differs from the gaming tastes of those who don't (and AFAIK, there isn't any such reason), then of course there's going to be some correlation.  That doesn't really tell us anything.

Exactly my point - it doesn't tell us anything. One of the things it does not tell us is that piracy is the reason developers are no longer focusing on the PC.

But on a certain level, a popular game doesn't really illustrate the problem.  Sure, if I produced a game that sold well, and was also pirated 4 million times, even if we use your figure of only 1 in 50 of those pirated games represent a lost sale, as Raz pointed out, at $50 a game, that's like $6M is lost revenue.  I made money off the game, but I lost $6M to pirates--I'd be pissed off, too.  But would I do it all over again?  Sure, because I still made money on the game.  But what if the game isn't a hit?  The revenue lost to pirates could very well be the difference between making and losing money.  And at some point, that has to become enough of a risk to deter the development of games for the PC.

But how is that different from any other cost of doing business?

All costs "at some point" deter someone from doing business. So what?

I don't understand what lesson we are supposed to take from all this dev whining. Piracy sucks? Pirates are assholes? OK, I am down with that.

So?

Do they have some hope that if they bitch about it enough, pirates will stop pirating, or consumers will put up with ridiculous DRM?

Piracy exists, it has always existed, it will continue to exist. It even exists in the console world, and will likely become more of an issue over time rather than less.

As far as I am concerned, they might as well whine about the high cost of good software engineers, or how much their artists make, or the growing cost of marketing. Gosh, if it didn't cost so much to market a game, maybe some marginal games that aren't being made would get made! It's true - but so what?

[dps]

As far as I am concerned, they might as well whine about the high cost of good software engineers, or how much their artists make, or the growing cost of marketing. Gosh, if it didn't cost so much to market a game, maybe some marginal games that aren't being made would get made! It's true - but so what?

Well, it's similar to the difference between a pizza place complaining about the high costs of their ingrediants, and complaining that more pizzas are being stolen from their delivery drivers than are being delivered to paying customers.  If that was the case, they'd stop delivering pizzas. 

[Berkut]

As far as I am concerned, they might as well whine about the high cost of good software engineers, or how much their artists make, or the growing cost of marketing. Gosh, if it didn't cost so much to market a game, maybe some marginal games that aren't being made would get made! It's true - but so what?

Well, it's similar to the difference between a pizza place complaining about the high costs of their ingrediants, and complaining that more pizzas are being stolen from their delivery drivers than are being delivered to paying customers.  If that was the case, they'd stop delivering pizzas. 

Except that it is no different - it is a cost either way. Economically there is no difference.

[dps]

As far as I am concerned, they might as well whine about the high cost of good software engineers, or how much their artists make, or the growing cost of marketing. Gosh, if it didn't cost so much to market a game, maybe some marginal games that aren't being made would get made! It's true - but so what?

Well, it's similar to the difference between a pizza place complaining about the high costs of their ingrediants, and complaining that more pizzas are being stolen from their delivery drivers than are being delivered to paying customers.  If that was the case, they'd stop delivering pizzas. 

Except that it is no different - it is a cost either way. Economically there is no difference.

But legally, they are far different.  One is just a normal cost of doing business, one is losses to criminal activity.

[Jacob]

The lesson is that piracy shapes the range of PC games available.

[Berkut]

The lesson is that piracy shapes the range of PC games available.

No, the lesson is that people have vivid imaginations.

[Razgovory]

The lesson is that piracy shapes the range of PC games available.

No, the lesson is that people have vivid imaginations.

You gonna give me that money anytime soon?  It's not much.  Ho Hum.

[Razgovory]

Do you actually have proof that piracy is as the same as it has always been?  So far you've provided us with anecdotes of your childhood.  No numbers or anything.

[Jacob]

No, the lesson is that people have vivid imaginations.

We'll just have to disagree on that.

[garbon]

No, the lesson is that people have vivid imaginations.

We'll just have to disagree on that.

Well didn't you yourself say that piracy is certainly an issue because those who make decisions perceive it to be one?

[Razgovory]

No, the lesson is that people have vivid imaginations.

We'll just have to disagree on that.

Well didn't you yourself say that piracy is certainly an issue because those who make decisions perceive it to be one?

That doesn't preclude it from being an actual one.  Some people perceive things as problems that are actual problems.

[Jacob]

Well didn't you yourself say that piracy is certainly an issue because those who make decisions perceive it to be one?

Yup. But I place the "vivid imagination" on this subject with Berkut.

[Razgovory]

I do hope he ends up giving me that money.