Guilty pleasures or conscious immoral decisions you take?

[The Brain]

Edit: no, "consenting adults", remember?

Yes, so you do seem to be suggesting that it is ok for parents to have sex with their children after the children reach the age of consent.  In jursidictions where age of consent is as low as 14 or 16 do you really so no problem with a father having sex with his 14 or 16 year old daugher?

In Sweden the age of consent is 15. A 15 y/o isn't an adult though. I said consenting adults.

Ok what is an adult in Sweden 18 - 21. Is it ok for a father to have sex with their 18-21 year old daughter or son?

I don't care what two consenting adults do sexwise. It seems weird that you focus on the exact boundaries when the principle of the matter is more interesting. Unless you think that all incest is bad there is very little difference between our opinions. And if you do think that all incest is bad then what do the boundaries matter? 

[crazy canuck]

I don't care what two consenting adults do sexwise. It seems weird that you focus on the exact boundaries when the principle of the matter is more interesting. Unless you think that all incest is bad there is very little difference between our opinions. And if you do think that all incest is bad then what do the boundaries matter?

The boundaries are interesting because it shows the absurdity of your position.  An 18 year old girl is no more able to consent to having sex with her father than a 14 year old.  The power position is the same.

[The Brain]

I don't care what two consenting adults do sexwise. It seems weird that you focus on the exact boundaries when the principle of the matter is more interesting. Unless you think that all incest is bad there is very little difference between our opinions. And if you do think that all incest is bad then what do the boundaries matter?

The boundaries are interesting because it shows the absurdity of your position.  An 18 year old girl is no more able to consent to having sex with her father than a 14 year old.  The power position is the same.

Then why are you arguing with me? If she can't give consent then she obviously isn't a consenting adult.

[crazy canuck]

I don't care what two consenting adults do sexwise. It seems weird that you focus on the exact boundaries when the principle of the matter is more interesting. Unless you think that all incest is bad there is very little difference between our opinions. And if you do think that all incest is bad then what do the boundaries matter?

The boundaries are interesting because it shows the absurdity of your position.  An 18 year old girl is no more able to consent to having sex with her father than a 14 year old.  The power position is the same.

Then why are you arguing with me? If she can't give consent then she obviously isn't a consenting adult.

Because you have taken the position that a person can consent to have sex with their parent if they are an "adult".

If your position is that incest will always be wrong because a parent child sexual relationship can never be consensual then the question is why are you arguing with me?

[The Brain]

I don't care what two consenting adults do sexwise. It seems weird that you focus on the exact boundaries when the principle of the matter is more interesting. Unless you think that all incest is bad there is very little difference between our opinions. And if you do think that all incest is bad then what do the boundaries matter?

The boundaries are interesting because it shows the absurdity of your position.  An 18 year old girl is no more able to consent to having sex with her father than a 14 year old.  The power position is the same.

Then why are you arguing with me? If she can't give consent then she obviously isn't a consenting adult.

Because you have taken the position that a person can consent to have sex with their parent if they are an "adult".

If your position is that incest will always be wrong because a parent child sexual relationship can never be consensual then the question is why are you arguing with me?

If you think that a parent-child sexual relationship can never be consensual then what does the age matter? Why argue about details when they change nothing?

[DGuller]

Also are incest, cheating and homosexuality all ethically equivalent to Marti?

I'd say that Marti is worse than all of those.

[The Brain]

Also are incest, cheating and homosexuality all ethically equivalent to Marti?

I'd say that Marti is worse than all of those.

He is the result of two of those.

[crazy canuck]

If you think that a parent-child sexual relationship can never be consensual then what does the age matter? Why argue about details when they change nothing?

I agree the age does not matter.  You seemed to be saying it did.  But if you are in agreement with me that sexual relationships between a parent and their child are wrong regardless of age then one wonders why you bothered disagreeing with me in the first place by suggesting there may be such a relationship if the parent and child are "consenting adults".

[DGuller]

Also are incest, cheating and homosexuality all ethically equivalent to Marti?

I'd say that Marti is worse than all of those.

He is the result of two of those.

[The Brain]

If you think that a parent-child sexual relationship can never be consensual then what does the age matter? Why argue about details when they change nothing?

I agree the age does not matter.  You seemed to be saying it did.  But if you are in agreement with me that sexual relationships between a parent and their child are wrong regardless of age then one wonders why you bothered disagreeing with me in the first place by suggesting there may be such a relationship if the parent and child are "consenting adults".

Disagreeing != arguing. If we disagree already in principle (we do) then there's no reason to argue about the details.

[crazy canuck]

If you think that a parent-child sexual relationship can never be consensual then what does the age matter? Why argue about details when they change nothing?

I agree the age does not matter.  You seemed to be saying it did.  But if you are in agreement with me that sexual relationships between a parent and their child are wrong regardless of age then one wonders why you bothered disagreeing with me in the first place by suggesting there may be such a relationship if the parent and child are "consenting adults".

Disagreeing != arguing. If we disagree already in principle (we do) then there's no reason to argue about the details.

So is your position now that I am wrong but you wont tell me why?

[The Brain]

If you think that a parent-child sexual relationship can never be consensual then what does the age matter? Why argue about details when they change nothing?

I agree the age does not matter.  You seemed to be saying it did.  But if you are in agreement with me that sexual relationships between a parent and their child are wrong regardless of age then one wonders why you bothered disagreeing with me in the first place by suggesting there may be such a relationship if the parent and child are "consenting adults".

Disagreeing != arguing. If we disagree already in principle (we do) then there's no reason to argue about the details.

So is your position now that I am wrong but you wont tell me why?

My position is (as you probably know) that I don't see anything wrong with two consenting adults having sex and that consent is possible between parent and child or brother and sister etc.

Your idea that it is impossible for an adult child to give consent to sex with a parent seems slightly weird to me, but since I don't know what you base it on I am not sure why you're wrong. I know that I would be perfectly able to say no if one of my parents suggested sex, and I also observe that different levels of power are very common in human relationships, incestuous or otherwise.

[crazy canuck]

Your idea that it is impossible for an adult child to give consent to sex with a parent seems slightly weird to me, but since I don't know what you base it on I am not sure why you're wrong. I know that I would be perfectly able to say no if one of my parents suggested sex, and I also observe that different levels of power are very common in human relationships, incestuous or otherwise.

Ideologue already addressed it but you missed it.

It has to do with the power imbalance in the relationship.  If you do not understand the power imbalance between child and parent then there is little I can do to explain it to you.

[The Brain]

Your idea that it is impossible for an adult child to give consent to sex with a parent seems slightly weird to me, but since I don't know what you base it on I am not sure why you're wrong. I know that I would be perfectly able to say no if one of my parents suggested sex, and I also observe that different levels of power are very common in human relationships, incestuous or otherwise.

Ideologue already addressed it but you missed it.

It has to do with the power imbalance in the relationship.  If you do not understand the power imbalance between child and parent then there is little I can do to explain it to you.

Sigh. You are famously dense, CC, so I have tried to be patient. You want my honest impression? My impression is that you are too thick to understand this discussion at any interesting level.

[crazy canuck]

Sigh. You are famously dense, CC, so I have tried to be patient. You want my honest impression? My impression is that you are too thick to understand this discussion at any interesting level.

Says the guy who thinks its ok for a father to screw his daughter.