French and Germans explore idea of smaller consolidated euro zone

[Ideologue]

Actually, most of us don't care.  You aren't going to go viper on us are you?

why bother?  Either we get rid of teh francophones or the francophones get rid of us. In the first case there's two new countries, in the second case a people is wiped of the face of the planet (as has been the stated goal of francophone belgium since its foundation)

This makes the Quebecois seps look reasonable and objective.

Do you live in Belgium or Srpska?

you're not too bright are you?

You're the genius equating the "plight" of Flems to a genocide.  I'm just asking on what basis you make that claim.

[Viking]

Why independence? Why not just give the French parts to France and the Dutch parts to the Netherlands?

Because the dutch don't deserve to have the flemish imposed upon them.

[Razgovory]

I guess I'll never understand Nationalism.  These statements about wiping people out seem absurd to me.

[Duque de Bragança]

I say we make the Flamish part a seperate country, tack the French part onto France, and make Brussels, as EU capital and seat of NATO an international, self governed city.

You forgot the part going to Germany (Eupen-Malmedy) 

[Neil]

I guess I'll never understand Nationalism.  These statements about wiping people out seem absurd to me.

You don't understand what it feels like to be part of a group, and what a wonderful thing that can be?  That's terrible.

[jimmy olsen]

Split Belgium between France and the Netherlands.

[Josquius]

Wallonia should not be. The Flems deserve their rightful territory- right down to Dunkirk, Rijsel et al!
Damn you history.

[Viking]

Wallonia should not be. The Flems deserve their rightful territory- right down to Dunkirk, Rijsel et al!
Damn you history.

Belgium can trade the Pas-de-Calais for Wallonia and TAG-switch from BEL to FLA.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

I guess I'll never understand Nationalism.  These statements about wiping people out seem absurd to me.

The flems don't want to wipe anyone out. Basically what the flems want is this:
- respect for the linguistic integrity of the territory (i.e.: official language is dutch and nothing else. What you speak at home or on the streets is not our problem)
- respect for territorial integrty of Flanders (i.e.: no demands to annex any communities to Brussels just because francophone immigrants refuse to accept the fact that they have moved to Flanders), no demands for corridors running from Brussel to Wallonia)
- respect for the rights of the flemish in Brussel and in the facility-communities in Wallonia (i.e. the total and correct execution of the agreed upon laws, and not like it is now: flanders guaranteeing the rights of the francophones as is agreedupon and the francophones giving us the middlefinger (for example: the agreement that makes Brussel bilingual dates from the 1930s, in all those 80 years the francophones running the place have not even once succeeded in honoring the agreement))
- total and complete transparancy of the way money is used, especially in Brussel and Wallonia, so that we know where and with whom the money that goes from Flanders to Brussel and Wallonia (between 6 and 12 billion euros/year, depending on wether or not the payment on goverment-debt is counted too) is spent. This in order to break the spendthrift, nepotism, corruption, etc of the quasi-communist Parti Socialist. All of which are prerequisits to save socalled solidarity between the north and south of the country.

In short: reciprocity and respect for borders, culture and money. And not like it is now: francophones getting special rights in flanders without equal rights for flems in wallonia, no respect for the agreed upon borders (MR-FDF, CDH demanding an expansion of Brussel with PS and Ecolo agreeing with them), respect for culture (when you migrate you bear the consequences) and respect for the money (you do everything needed to make sure you don't need the money n the future instead of asking more and more and more).
In all this you will not find a claim from any mainstream flemish party to annex francophone communities or create corridors to places where lots of dutchspeaking people live.
The statement that one of the goals for Belgium is the eradication of the germanic element in the country is, however, fact:
"Les premiers principes d'une bonne administration sont basés sur l'emploi exclusif d'une seule langue et il est évident que la seule langue des Belges doit être le français. Pour arriver à ce résultat, il est nécessaire que toutes les fonctions, civiles et militaires, soient confiées à des Wallons et des Luxembourgeois; de cette manière, les Flamands, privés temporairement des avantages attachés à ces emplois, seront contraint d'apprendre le français et l'on détruira ainsi peu à peu l'élément germanique en Belgique", by Charles Rogier in 1832. Also from his mouth are the words: "La Belgique sera latine ou elle ne sera pas"
And the mentality hasn't changed one bit since.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Actually, most of us don't care.  You aren't going to go viper on us are you?

why bother?  Either we get rid of teh francophones or the francophones get rid of us. In the first case there's two new countries, in the second case a people is wiped of the face of the planet (as has been the stated goal of francophone belgium since its foundation)

This makes the Quebecois seps look reasonable and objective.

Do you live in Belgium or Srpska?

you're not too bright are you?

You're the genius equating the "plight" of Flems to a genocide.  I'm just asking on what basis you make that claim.

cultural genocide numbnut

[garbon]

I guess I'll never understand Nationalism.  These statements about wiping people out seem absurd to me.

You don't understand what it feels like to be part of a group, and what a wonderful thing that can be?  That's terrible.

There is a difference between feeling like part of a group and wanting to exterminate all members of other groups.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Why independence? Why not just give the French parts to France and the Dutch parts to the Netherlands?

Because the dutch don't deserve to have the flemish imposed upon them.

the dutch would probably be rather happy to get flanders: two more big ports and a decent sized one all in the vicinity of Rotterdam. 't would make for the biggest port-region of the world in all likelyhood. a rich population, good economy...
the french with wallonia would get a region riddles with an unknown amount of debt (but at least 6 billion a year from latest guesstimates) with a population that has been suckling the PS-teat for decades.

----------

Anyways: should the euro split the chances that Belgium makes it into the new good euro are slim. too much debt, too many taxes, too few people working and a part of the country that resists all reforms needed. If, by some miracle we'd be allowed in, Belgium would be the Greece of the new monetary union. with all the inevitable misery that implies. I don't think the northen europeans are insane.

[Neil]

I don't think you'll find much sympathy for Wallonians here.  Uppity francophones aren't popular, and nobody gets more bitchy about language then the Frenchies.  That said, none of you should be speaking non-English languages anyways.

[Neil]

I guess I'll never understand Nationalism.  These statements about wiping people out seem absurd to me.

You don't understand what it feels like to be part of a group, and what a wonderful thing that can be?  That's terrible.

There is a difference between feeling like part of a group and wanting to exterminate all members of other groups.

Nationalism doesn't always lead to a desire for genocide.

[garbon]

I guess I'll never understand Nationalism.  These statements about wiping people out seem absurd to me.

You don't understand what it feels like to be part of a group, and what a wonderful thing that can be?  That's terrible.

There is a difference between feeling like part of a group and wanting to exterminate all members of other groups.

Nationalism doesn't always lead to a desire for genocide.

However, Raz was specifically speaking about an incident where it had.