Penn State Goings-On

[Rasputin]

I'm confident in my ability to distinguish a 10 year old kid from a 'man' having anal sex in the shower. 

How confident are you in your ability to distinguish a 10 year old kid from a kid at the age of consent?

What does that have to do with this fact pattern?  You cant tell the difference between a 10 year old and a teenager.  WTF?

And besides there is no indication this guy didnt know he was 10.  He knew it was a child.  He didnt act.

indeed he testified to the grand jury that the boy appeared to be about ten years old

[Berkut]

I am not really sure I get the blasting of McQueary. Should he have done more? Probably, but we don't really know what exactly happened.

We do know that he did SOMETHING, which is more than can be said for pretty much anyone else, and certainly the easiest thing for him to do would be to do nothing.

Wishing he would die? Seriously? Saying he is only behind Sandusky in culpability? Crazy talk.

[dps]

What?  A ten year old boy being raped doesn't need to be screaming for someone to act.

That's easy to say in the abstract.  You see two men having anal sex in the shower.  Are you going to ask them for proof of age?

If you cant tell the difference between an adult and a 10 year old you are a moron.

The age of consent in Pennsylvania is 16.  If you see 2 people having sex, 1 of whom you personally know is an adult, and the other 1 is someone you don't know who is 14 of 15, you might reasonably for think that the younger person is 16 and therefore legal.  But if they're 10?  No. 

Besides, the reports agree that McQueary was emotionally distraught when he told Paterno what he'd seen.  If he had thought that Sandusky was having consential gay sex with someone of legal age, he might have been squicked out and/or disgusted, but I don't think it's logical that he would have been distraught.  McQueary knew that it was an underage kid.

[alfred russel]

I have played a lot of sports.  I have played at the University level.  Granted I have never showered in a shower room of a Division I football team.  But I can tell you that I have never seen a grown man showering alone with a 10 year old boy in a University practice facility. 

That strikes me as very odd indeed.

Now add to that that fact that this particular grown man was asked to leave the program around the time an earlier allegation was made and it becomes very odd that one would think such an activity was ok after the most basic of investigations.  Like I said this is either complete incompetence or something more sinister. Either way the Board would have good reason to have lost trust in the President given your hyothetical.

But you are making an assumption regarding how he left the program. It is possible that the earlier investigation was unknown to people in the administration (including Paterno). I'm not saying that is likely, but if I was on the Board I would want an answer into that before I made a decision to fire anyone.

As for whether showering with a 10 year old is normal, I would doubt you would see many 10 year olds showering with adults in university practice facilities but there probably aren't many 10 year olds showering there period. But an athletic associated youth charity with a connection to the football team was allowed on campus, so this wouldn't have been so unusual at Penn State. I recall as a kid I took lots of showers with adults, often at a beach house we stayed at which was quite small and had only 1 or 2 showers for 15 or so people there. The adults were related, but I wouldn't necessarily jump to the conclusion that this was flat out wrong if some weren't. A red flag certainly, but if it was investigated and no other problems came to light, I wouldn't be especially concerned.

[dps]

I am not really sure I get the blasting of McQueary. Should he have done more? Probably, but we don't really know what exactly happened.

We do know that he did SOMETHING, which is more than can be said for pretty much anyone else, and certainly the easiest thing for him to do would be to do nothing.

Wishing he would die? Seriously? Saying he is only behind Sandusky in culpability? Crazy talk.

He did the same thing Paterno did;  he told his boss.  The difference is that if either had gone to the police, McQueary would have been an eyewitness, while anything that Paterno told the police would have been hearsay.

[crazy canuck]

I am not really sure I get the blasting of McQueary. Should he have done more? Probably, but we don't really know what exactly happened.

We know exactly what happened from McQuery's point of view.  He testified to exactly what he saw and what he did. 

[crazy canuck]

The age of consent in Pennsylvania is 16.  If you see 2 people having sex, 1 of whom you personally know is an adult, and the other 1 is someone you don't know who is 14 of 15, you might reasonably for think that the younger person is 16 and therefore legal.  But if they're 10?  No. 

Besides, the reports agree that McQueary was emotionally distraught when he told Paterno what he'd seen.  If he had thought that Sandusky was having consential gay sex with someone of legal age, he might have been squicked out and/or disgusted, but I don't think it's logical that he would have been distraught.  McQueary knew that it was an underage kid.

Agreed. Add to that the fact that even if there was some ambiguity to the age there was a history here and the kid (even if barely legal) was under the control of that adult.  There is simply no excuse for thinking this was in any way legitimate.

[Berkut]

I am not really sure I get the blasting of McQueary. Should he have done more? Probably, but we don't really know what exactly happened.

We do know that he did SOMETHING, which is more than can be said for pretty much anyone else, and certainly the easiest thing for him to do would be to do nothing.

Wishing he would die? Seriously? Saying he is only behind Sandusky in culpability? Crazy talk.

He did the same thing Paterno did;  he told his boss.  The difference is that if either had gone to the police, McQueary would have been an eyewitness, while anything that Paterno told the police would have been hearsay.

Very different between him and Paterno - he saw it, Paterno just heard from someone that something was going on.

And there is a huge difference in standing between some 20 year old grad assistant and Joe Fucking Paterno, and in maturity and authority as well. You cannot hold them to the same standard.

I don't think it was ok that McQueary reported what he saw to an authority and then let it rest there, but at the same time I don't think he deserves to be blasted and held to this kind of account either.

A GA is nobody. He has zero authority, is not any kind of manager or leader. He has no power to investigate anything, or to oversee anything. He should have gone to the police, certainly. But assuming that he did not as some sort of quid pro quo for his silence is a pretty fucking huge assumption.

[alfred russel]

I am not really sure I get the blasting of McQueary. Should he have done more? Probably, but we don't really know what exactly happened.

We do know that he did SOMETHING, which is more than can be said for pretty much anyone else, and certainly the easiest thing for him to do would be to do nothing.

Wishing he would die? Seriously? Saying he is only behind Sandusky in culpability? Crazy talk.

He did the same thing Paterno did;  he told his boss.  The difference is that if either had gone to the police, McQueary would have been an eyewitness, while anything that Paterno told the police would have been hearsay.

Very different between him and Paterno - he saw it, Paterno just heard from someone that something was going on.

And there is a huge difference in standing between some 20 year old grad assistant and Joe Fucking Paterno, and in maturity and authority as well. You cannot hold them to the same standard.

I don't think it was ok that McQueary reported what he saw to an authority and then let it rest there, but at the same time I don't think he deserves to be blasted and held to this kind of account either.

A GA is nobody. He has zero authority, is not any kind of manager or leader. He has no power to investigate anything, or to oversee anything. He should have gone to the police, certainly. But assuming that he did not as some sort of quid pro quo for his silence is a pretty fucking huge assumption.

He was 28 year old man. I'm guessing becoming a GA at Penn State is a highly sought after position. I'd hold him to a higher standard than a 75 year old man with second hand information, no matter how many college football games the old guy won.

[crazy canuck]

A GA is nobody. He has zero authority, is not any kind of manager or leader. He has no power to investigate anything, or to oversee anything. He should have gone to the police, certainly. But assuming that he did not as some sort of quid pro quo for his silence is a pretty fucking huge assumption.

One would hope that anyone can be expected to stop the rape of a child or at the very least report what they saw to the police whether or not they are a "nobody".   He talked to his father instead.  One would hope that after recieving that sober second thought the decision would be made to go to the police with what is clearly a crime.  But he didnt.  And then nothing was done.

One does not need to make many "pretty fucking huge assumptions" to think of a number of reasonable scenarios in which this was hushed up.

[Malthus]

One would hope that anyone can be expected to stop the rape of a child or at the very least report what they saw to the police whether or not they are a "nobody".   He talked to his father instead.  One would hope that after recieving that sober second thought the decision would be made to go to the police with what is clearly a crime.  But he didnt.  And then nothing was done.

One does not need to make many "pretty fucking huge assumptions" to think of a number of reasonable scenarios in which this was hushed up.

Really, there are only two possibilities for his continued silence - either he was afraid for himself, or he saw an opportunity for himself. Neither is admirable ...

[Valmy]

But assuming that he did not as some sort of quid pro quo for his silence is a pretty fucking huge assumption.

I just want to point out the assistant who turned in Dave Bliss at Baylor has not been able to find a Division I job since.

While this guy, who remained silent, got promoted.

Now maybe the Baylor guy was just a really bad coach and McQueary is a very gifted coach but it is interesting.

[dps]

I am not really sure I get the blasting of McQueary. Should he have done more? Probably, but we don't really know what exactly happened.

We do know that he did SOMETHING, which is more than can be said for pretty much anyone else, and certainly the easiest thing for him to do would be to do nothing.

Wishing he would die? Seriously? Saying he is only behind Sandusky in culpability? Crazy talk.

He did the same thing Paterno did;  he told his boss.  The difference is that if either had gone to the police, McQueary would have been an eyewitness, while anything that Paterno told the police would have been hearsay.

Very different between him and Paterno - he saw it, Paterno just heard from someone that something was going on.

And there is a huge difference in standing between some 20 year old grad assistant and Joe Fucking Paterno, and in maturity and authority as well. You cannot hold them to the same standard.

I don't think it was ok that McQueary reported what he saw to an authority and then let it rest there, but at the same time I don't think he deserves to be blasted and held to this kind of account either.

A GA is nobody. He has zero authority, is not any kind of manager or leader. He has no power to investigate anything, or to oversee anything. He should have gone to the police, certainly. But assuming that he did not as some sort of quid pro quo for his silence is a pretty fucking huge assumption.

He was 28 year old man. I'm guessing becoming a GA at Penn State is a highly sought after position. I'd hold him to a higher standard than a 75 year old man with second hand information, no matter how many college football games the old guy won.

Bingo. 

And I don't assume that McQueary refrained from going to the police as a quid pro quo for a job, either.  I criticize him for it because he was an eyewitness to an extremely serious felony, and he didn't stop it or at least go to the police.  I'm not working in a managerial or supervisory postion right now, and I have no authority whatsoever at work, but if I saw someone at work raping a 10 year old, I'd either step in to stop the assault while yelling for someone to call 911, or at the very least I'd call 911.  I wouldn't simply report it to a supervisor.

I do agree that wishing death on him is over the top.  His is a sin of omission, not commission.  You'll deal with people worse than him every day.

[Scipio]

Caveat: I fucking hate PSU.  Always have, always will.  So consider that my disclosure of a conflict of interest.

Any particular reason?  Just the Michigan-PSU rivalry thing?

They have no business being in the Big Ten.  The JoePa idolatry.  The JoePa Idolatry.  And them having no business being in the Big Ten.

[grumbler]

We know exactly what happened from McQuery's point of view.  He testified to exactly what he saw and what he did. 

Got a link to his testimony?  You must, if you know " exactly what happened from McQuery's point of view."  All I have seen is summaries, which don't say exactly what happened nor do they say completely what happened.  They don't say, for instance, why McQueary didn't go to the police, or whether he was a mandatory reporter.