Penn State Goings-On

[Caliga]

Reports now coming out that Penn State's President is about to resign.

[garbon]

Reports now coming out that Penn State's President is about to resign.

Damn.

[Valmy]

Here is an article published April of this year: http://www.timesonline.com/columnists/sports/mark_madden/madden-sandusky-a-state-secret/article_863d3c82-5e6f-11e0-9ae5-001a4bcf6878.html

The Jerry Sandusky situation seems a matter of failure to connect certain dots, or perhaps unwillingness in that regard. Lots of people besides the former Penn State defensive coordinator have some explaining to do.

Allegations of improper conduct with an underage male first surfaced in 1998, while Sandusky was still employed by Penn State. That incident allegedly occurred in a shower at Penn State's on-campus football facility. No charges were filed.

Sandusky retired the next year, in 1999. He was 55, prime age for a coach. Odd, to say the least - especially with Joe Paterno thought even then to be ready to quit and Sandusky a likely, openly-discussed successor.

It seems logical to ask: What did Paterno know, and when did he know it? What did Penn State's administration know, and when did they know it?

Best-case scenario: Charges are never brought, and Sandusky walks away with his reputation permanently scarred. The rumors, the jokes, the sideways glances - they won't ever stop. Paterno and Penn State do the great escape.

Worst-case scenario: Sandusky is charged. Then it seems reasonable to wonder: Did Penn State not make an issue of Sandusky's alleged behavior in 1998 in exchange for him walking away from the program at an age premature for most coaches? Did Penn State's considerable influence help get Sandusky off the hook?

Don't kid yourself. That could happen. Don't underestimate the power of Paterno and Penn State in central Pennsylvania when it comes to politicians, the police and the media.

In 1999, Penn State was rid of Sandusky. His rep was unblemished, which allowed him to continue running a charitable foundation that gave him access to underage males. To be a volunteer assistant with a high school football team, thus gaining access to underage males.

If Paterno and Penn State knew, but didn't act, instead facilitating Sandusky's untroubled retirement - are Paterno and Penn State responsible for untoward acts since committed by Sandusky?

This is far from an outrageous hypothesis, especially given the convenient timeline.

Initially accused in 1998. Retires in 1999. Never coaches college football again. Sandusky was very successful at what he did. The architect of Linebacker U. Helped win national championships in 1982 and 1986. Recognized as college football's top assistant in 1986 and 1999.

Never any stories about Sandusky being pursued for a high-profile job. Never any rumors about him coming out of retirement.

But there's no shortage of stories and rumors about Penn State football sweeping problems under the rug, is there?

Why did college football let an accomplished coach like Sandusky walk away at 55? Why did he disappear into relative anonymity?

A grand jury, spurred by a complaint made by a 15-year-old boy in 2009, has been investigating Sandusky for 18 months. Witnesses include Paterno and Penn State athletic director Tim Curley. Interviewing Paterno about a subject like this had to have been one of the single most uncomfortable acts in the history of jurisprudence.

Plenty of questions remain yet unanswered. Potentially among them: What's more important, Penn State football or the welfare of a few kids?

You might not want to hear the answer.

Now I do not have a smoking gun here but why the F would Joe Paterno fire his DC, the 1999 Asistant Coach of the Year in College Football: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AFCA_Coach_of_the_Year#Assistant_Coach_of_the_Year_Award

right after his team beats Texas A&M 24-0?  Then this dude never coaches again.  At age 55, the heir apparant and legendary DC who is credited for making Penn State Linebacker U?  And Joe Pa knew nothing about the 1998 investigation?  Why was Sandusky fired in 1999?  Anybody?  And don't think he "retired", read the indictment.  He was freaking fired.

Listen to this interview: http://kznx-am.tritondigitalmedia.com/includes/news_items/6/6141/brooksinterview11711.mp3

[crazy canuck]

What I meant by "very broadly" is that if I ask you to tell me what you saw, I am technically "investigating" and there was an "investigation." I somehow doubt there was a real investigation, because these sorts of charges are investigated by police and law enforcement, and in this case we know they weren't.

I don't know what happened, but I would think that they were able to convince themselves that the charges were largely based on a misunderstanding rather than confronting the reality. Somehow these people had to live with themselves, just as the GA did.

I agree that this conduct (to be clear the 2002 incident) is criminal and should have been investigated by the police but as you say we know it was not.  But that does not exclude the possbility that there was an internal investigation where the allegations of the GA were looked into by the University.  We do not know for sure what Paterno was told by the GA and we iirc we know nothing about what Paterno told the University.

One possible scenario is that by the time it got to a decision maker at the University it was boiled down to an allegation of sexual misconduct without a lot of particulars and an investigation was begun (that would be the normal course at most universities).  Of course where this went off the rails in this scenario is that once the details were learned after the GA was interviewed the police should have been notified immediately.

[crazy canuck]

Reports now coming out that Penn State's President is about to resign.

Probably a race to see if he resigns before being fired.

[Rasputin]

at valmy:

exactly; the  more one peels back the onion the more complex and smellier this whole case gets

perhaps there's no 2002 investigation after all, because the adminstration already knows that the ga's claims are likely true based upon what it learned and concealed in 98?


further has anyone considered the university of miami's role in this; i just got off the phone with a member of their board of trustees who is positively gleefully that everyone has forgotten that they even exist -- while it seems like mere coincidence, i sure distrust those fuckers and we ought not forget that they deserve the death penalty

[alfred russel]

I agree that this conduct (to be clear the 2002 incident) is criminal and should have been investigated by the police but as you say we know it was not.  But that does not exclude the possbility that there was an internal investigation where the allegations of the GA were looked into by the University.  We do not know for sure what Paterno was told by the GA and we iirc we know nothing about what Paterno told the University.

One possible scenario is that by the time it got to a decision maker at the University it was boiled down to an allegation of sexual misconduct without a lot of particulars and an investigation was begun (that would be the normal course at most universities).  Of course where this went off the rails in this scenario is that once the details were learned after the GA was interviewed the police should have been notified immediately.

Actually, that is a good point. Maybe rather than the GA reporting what he said to the grand jury, it was reported along the lines of sexual harrassment and investigated by HR.

But if this was reported as rape or even fondling, who would investigate that if not the police? Save law enforcement, no one is going to be trained to do so, and anyone with common sense is going to refuse to take over such an investigation.

[Valmy]

at valmy:

exactly; the  more one peels back the onion the more complex and smellier this whole case gets

perhaps there's no 2002 investigation after all, because the adminstration already knows that the ga's claims are likely true based upon what it learned and concealed in 98?

That thought absolutely crossed my mind.  They might have huddled to figure out how to handle it.

further has anyone considered the university of miami's role in this; i just got off the phone with a member of their board of trustees who is positively gleefully that everyone has forgotten that they even exist -- while it seems like mere coincidence, i sure distrust those fuckers and we ought not forget that they deserve the death penalty

Sickening.  Really?

[crazy canuck]

I agree that this conduct (to be clear the 2002 incident) is criminal and should have been investigated by the police but as you say we know it was not.  But that does not exclude the possbility that there was an internal investigation where the allegations of the GA were looked into by the University.  We do not know for sure what Paterno was told by the GA and we iirc we know nothing about what Paterno told the University.

One possible scenario is that by the time it got to a decision maker at the University it was boiled down to an allegation of sexual misconduct without a lot of particulars and an investigation was begun (that would be the normal course at most universities).  Of course where this went off the rails in this scenario is that once the details were learned after the GA was interviewed the police should have been notified immediately.

Actually, that is a good point. Maybe rather than the GA reporting what he said to the grand jury, it was reported along the lines of sexual harrassment and investigated by HR.

But if this was reported as rape or even fondling, who would investigate that if not the police? Save law enforcement, no one is going to be trained to do so, and anyone with common sense is going to refuse to take over such an investigation.

I agree if this was reported as sex with a 10 year old boy in any form the police should have been called.  But even that does not exclude the possibility of an internal investigation and normally internal discipline procedures will work in tandem with or follow the police investigation.  At least if people are acting properly.

In this case it will be very interesting to learn what really happened.  What we do know sure looks like a cover up of epic proportions.

[jimmy olsen]

A lot of you guys keep saying "if this, if that", just read the Grand Jury report.

Warning - This document is tremendously disturbing.
http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/uploadedFiles/Press/Sandusky-Grand-Jury-Presentment.pdf

[Rasputin]

further has anyone considered the university of miami's role in this; i just got off the phone with a member of their board of trustees who is positively gleefully that everyone has forgotten that they even exist -- while it seems like mere coincidence, i sure distrust those fuckers and we ought not forget that they deserve the death penalty

Sickening.  Really?

dont get me wrong; i dont think he was happy that sandusky is pediophile

it was however clear that he was thrilled to have the spotlight on penn state and off of miami's problems

[crazy canuck]

A lot of you guys keep saying "if this, if that", just read the Grand Jury report.

Does the Grand Jury report tell us the answers to what we are discussing - ie does it tell us what happened after the Ga told Paterno and Paterno passed it up the line?

[Rasputin]

A lot of you guys keep saying "if this, if that", just read the Grand Jury report.

Warning - This document is tremendously disturbing.
http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/uploadedFiles/Press/Sandusky-Grand-Jury-Presentment.pdf

i've read the report carefully and in fact it's the report that raises all of these "if this then that" scenarios

you do understand that the report merely summarizes what the witnesses testified to and as it relates to the testimony of schultz, joe pa, curely and the ga their testimony differs on some of they key conversations about what people were told what and when?

[alfred russel]

In this case it will be very interesting to learn what really happened.  What we do know sure looks like a cover up of epic proportions.

I agree--but I have to think it is a case of an institutional failure where the standard operating procedure was designed to avoid bad publicity in mundane cases rather than an active cover up. I have more faith in humanity than to think that people knowing what was going on covered it up. I could be wrong.

[Rasputin]

A lot of you guys keep saying "if this, if that", just read the Grand Jury report.

Does the Grand Jury report tell us the answers to what we are discussing - ie does it tell us what happened after the Ga told Paterno and Paterno passed it up the line?

read the preamble and victim two and you'll have the gist of it