British to Allow Armed Guards to Combat Sea Piracy

[Razgovory]

Even if they did, the individual companies would likely be the ones making the decision.  Since they use flag of conveniences is partly to avoid safety regulations, I doubt they really care that much about their crews.  I imagine they'll have someone like Dguller work out it the numbers to see if putting guards on the ships is less expensive then paying an occasional ransom.  If not, then there won't likely be guards.

If the companies that own the vessels won't provide armed guards, then I bet that the crewmembers will arm themselves.  If fact, I suspect that they already do in many cases.

Maybe.  Maybe the companies prohibit it.  Carrying a pistol is unlikely to do much good and assault rifles are difficult to hide (and may be of limited use).  You really need a Heavy Machine Gun.  The shipping company certainly doesn't want to risk the ship sinking in a gun fight (or cargo being damaged), something that could happen if pirates shoot a bunch of RPGs at a ship.

[Jacob]

It is not difficult to hide an assault rifle on a cargo ship, Raz. Nor a machine gun, for that matter.

You'd have problems using them without the captain knowing about it, of course, but if the crew and captain were in agreement I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be a problem to have and use such weapons against pirates without the owners knowing unless it somehow because a big media deal.

[MadImmortalMan]

What I find amazing about this story is that apparently the Brits did NOT allow armed guards prior to this, on otherwise private vessels.

It only took a decade of piracy to get that rule changed?

International waters--what's to have stopped them? I bet they've been armed the whole time.

[Razgovory]

It is not difficult to hide an assault rifle on a cargo ship, Raz. Nor a machine gun, for that matter.

You'd have problems using them without the captain knowing about it, of course, but if the crew and captain were in agreement I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be a problem to have and use such weapons against pirates without the owners knowing unless it somehow because a big media deal.

If the captain thinks he'll get fired or fined if he lets guns on the boat, he won't let them on.  If they ever use the weapons the owners are going to find out, eventually and then the captain will lose his job.  But to stop a small speed boat or something similar you'd really need a HMG.  Something that has good range, hitting power, and automatic fire.  A Browning M2 would work well.

[Jacob]

If the captain thinks he'll get fired or fined if he lets guns on the boat, he won't let them on.  If they ever use the weapons the owners are going to find out, eventually and then the captain will lose his job.  But to stop a small speed boat or something similar you'd really need a HMG.  Something that has good range, hitting power, and automatic fire.  A Browning M2 would work well.

Heh. I don't think the captain has much say in what the crew brings on or not, if they want to bring it on.

But yeah, like I said, using it is another issue if the captain doesn't know.

[Razgovory]

I imagine the ships captain would frown on sailors bringing contraband on the ship.  Say, a Kilo of heroin...  They probably dock your pay or something.  Hell if the ship is registered in Liberia or something who knows what the captain can do.  He might be able to throw you into the sea for all I know.

[dps]

The captain is the most likely to want the crew to be armed, because he's the most likely to be taken hostage by pirates.  He'd probably rather get fired for allowing the crew to fight back than to get taken off the ship by pirates and maybe shot later.

[Jacob]

I imagine the ships captain would frown on sailors bringing contraband on the ship.  Say, a Kilo of heroin...  They probably dock your pay or something.  Hell if the ship is registered in Liberia or something who knows what the captain can do.  He might be able to throw you into the sea for all I know.

The captain may very well frown on the sailors bringing a kilo of heroin on board the ship if he found out, but those ships are huge. It's not difficult at all to hide contraband on a ship.

[grumbler]

The captain is the most likely to want the crew to be armed, because he's the most likely to be taken hostage by pirates.  He'd probably rather get fired for allowing the crew to fight back than to get taken off the ship by pirates and maybe shot later.

It's not just the matter of the captain choosing between getting fired or getting taken hostage.  If the captain allows crewmembers to bring weapons aboard, and they then use those weapons to hose down some "fishing vessal" because it gets close enough to make them fear it is full of pirates (who are identical in appearance to fishermen, by and large) then he gets fired and goes to prison for murder.

Pirates don't fly the jolly roger any more.  Defending against them while also not assaulting or murdering innocents takes more than a Hollywood script.  It takes training.

Once they are aboard, of course, telling pirates from fishermen is pretty easy, but then you have untrained guys with guns going up against trained guys with guns, and Siege can tell you how that scenario plays out.

[Berkut]

grumbler, check your pm.

[grumbler]

grumbler, check your pm.

Done.  Sure wish we had those popup boxes like we had on the good forum software.

[dps]

The captain is the most likely to want the crew to be armed, because he's the most likely to be taken hostage by pirates.  He'd probably rather get fired for allowing the crew to fight back than to get taken off the ship by pirates and maybe shot later.

It's not just the matter of the captain choosing between getting fired or getting taken hostage.  If the captain allows crewmembers to bring weapons aboard, and they then use those weapons to hose down some "fishing vessal" because it gets close enough to make them fear it is full of pirates (who are identical in appearance to fishermen, by and large) then he gets fired and goes to prison for murder.

Pirates don't fly the jolly roger any more.  Defending against them while also not assaulting or murdering innocents takes more than a Hollywood script.  It takes training.

Once they are aboard, of course, telling pirates from fishermen is pretty easy, but then you have untrained guys with guns going up against trained guys with guns, and Siege can tell you how that scenario plays out.

I think you can tell pirates from fishermen well before they actually get aboard your ship--if nothing else, the point at which they point weapons at you vessel and demand that you allow them to board should be a clue that they aren't just fishermen.

And are the pirates really well trained?  Experienced, maybe, but being experienced at intimidating and shooting unarmed people doesn't exactly equate to well-trained.

[Berkut]

The captain is the most likely to want the crew to be armed, because he's the most likely to be taken hostage by pirates.  He'd probably rather get fired for allowing the crew to fight back than to get taken off the ship by pirates and maybe shot later.

It's not just the matter of the captain choosing between getting fired or getting taken hostage.  If the captain allows crewmembers to bring weapons aboard, and they then use those weapons to hose down some "fishing vessal" because it gets close enough to make them fear it is full of pirates (who are identical in appearance to fishermen, by and large) then he gets fired and goes to prison for murder.

Pirates don't fly the jolly roger any more.  Defending against them while also not assaulting or murdering innocents takes more than a Hollywood script.  It takes training.

Once they are aboard, of course, telling pirates from fishermen is pretty easy, but then you have untrained guys with guns going up against trained guys with guns, and Siege can tell you how that scenario plays out.

I think you can tell pirates from fishermen well before they actually get aboard your ship--if nothing else, the point at which they point weapons at you vessel and demand that you allow them to board should be a clue that they aren't just fishermen.

And are the pirates really well trained?  Experienced, maybe, but being experienced at intimidating and shooting unarmed people doesn't exactly equate to well-trained.

I think very few fisherman have much reason to approach your ship at all. The fact that the ship in question is trying to close with you is a pretty good indicator that you should be worried.

[Valmy]

Dang I thought this meant the British were sending the Grenadier Guards to combat sea piracy.

[The Brain]

Once they are aboard, of course, telling pirates from fishermen is pretty easy, but then you have untrained guys with guns going up against trained guys with guns, and Siege can tell you how that scenario plays out.

I don't think the typical sailor has combat training.