Neopaganism Is The Worst

[grumbler]

I'm not in a flock

But the entire point is neopagans don't have anything to believe in.  Being religious means believing in something external that's greater than yourself.  Neopagans don't have that.  They feel good in a forest, which is fine, but it's not a religion.  When they move beyond themselves then I'll think of them as a religion rather than self-involvement in a robe.

Your flock is the flock that believes that some beliefs (like "being religious means believing in something external that's greater than yourself" and "Neopagans ... feel good in a forest...but it's not a religion") are true as soon as asserted.

I still don't see any inherent difference between believing in unevidenced things that are "external that's greater than yourself" and believing in unevidenced things that are not "external that's greater than yourself."  Members of your flock (not every one of which is religious) still look much alike to me, since I don't see the differences in what you believe in that separates you in your eyes.

[Valmy]

Yes, but I think the religious are especially persistent in that. Perhaps in future, our presidential candidates will be losing votes because they play the Horde. Right now they lose votes because of their religious views.

They lose votes for all sorts of views.  If a presidential candidate spent all his time playing World of Warcraft that would probably lose him votes also.

[grumbler]

That is the thing I cannot really get.  What is religion supposed to be satisfying?  I am not really sure.  But people do seem to really get something from it.

I don't get it, either, nor do I get the distinctions people draw between religions, or between "real" religions and "things-that-look-like-religions-but-are-not."

But I don't think it is important.  I know that my parents got a lot out of being religious, and I know that I appreciate all the support that the other members of my church give to my mother.  Religion isn't good or bad.  Religious people do good or bad things, just like irreligious people.

[Razgovory]

How odd.  Religion is a bit like law.  You don't personally interpret the law.  Well not if you intend to stay out of jail.  Why would the divine law change person to person?

People don't interpret religion?

Best left to professionals.

[Sheilbh]

But I also sort of like new agey bullshit because it is so wonderfully post-modern.  Everybody involved usually knows it is bullshit but it fulfills them on some level they have a hard time vocalizing.  I find it pretty interesting really.

I can see that.  But I have a sort-of ascetic Commie attitude to this sort of thing.  I find the new age stuff decadent, Western self-indulgence - which I don't think is true of, say, the Hare Krishna who have a real corpus of belief going on.  It brings out a reaction

For what it's worth I entirely disagree with Marty on this too

[Razgovory]

Religious/superstitious people are biologically superior to beings of pure reason(if such existed) as they are able to cling to irrational things like the survival instinct.

They also reproduce at a higher rate then secular people.  If you have to aniamls who are identical except for one is far more fertile then the other, the less fertile species will be out competed by the more fertile one.  In essence, secularism is an evolutionary dead end.

[Sheilbh]

That is the thing I cannot really get.  What is religion supposed to be satisfying?  I am not really sure.  But people do seem to really get something from it.

Different people get different things out of it.

[Razgovory]

But I also sort of like new agey bullshit because it is so wonderfully post-modern.  Everybody involved usually knows it is bullshit but it fulfills them on some level they have a hard time vocalizing.  I find it pretty interesting really.

I can see that.  But I have a sort-of ascetic Commie attitude to this sort of thing.  I find the new age stuff decadent, Western self-indulgence - which I don't think is true of, say, the Hare Krishna who have a real corpus of belief going on.  It brings out a reaction

For what it's worth I entirely disagree with Marty on this too

Marty only cares about himself, as evidence in his "why do heteros get so freaked out about cheating", thread.  I think the idea of sacrificing for no personal gain, is totally alien to him.

[The Minsky Moment]

If the efficiency of our reasoning was considered paramount,

Under that premise, we are basically screwed because there is quite a bit of evidence that as an empirical matter, human reasoning tends to be grossly inefficient and subject to all sorts of biases and systemic errors. 

[Sheilbh]

Marty only cares about himself, as evidence in his "why do heteros get so freaked out about cheating", thread.  I think the idea of sacrificing for no personal gain, is totally alien to him.

That's harsh.  But I do think Marti's probably the poster I most often fundamentally disagree with.  Thank God he's funny.

[merithyn]

I'm not in a flock

But the entire point is neopagans don't have anything to believe in.  Being religious means believing in something external that's greater than yourself.  Neopagans don't have that.  They feel good in a forest, which is fine, but it's not a religion.  When they move beyond themselves then I'll think of them as a religion rather than self-involvement in a robe.

I wonder how much you actually know about neo-pagan beliefs. From this comment, I'd argue not much. They do have a belief system with gods and morals and everything, or at least most do. (It's really hard to discuss this intelligently when you continue to lump all of neo-pagan religions into one lump category.)

Perhaps you should do a bit of research before espousing this kind of garbage.

[Sheilbh]

I wonder how much you actually know about neo-pagan beliefs. From this comment, I'd argue not much. They do have a belief system with gods and morals and everything, or at least most do. (It's really hard to discuss this intelligently when you continue to lump all of neo-pagan religions into one lump category.)

My family live not far from Glastonbury or Stonehenge.  I've spoken to a fair few neo-pagans and there's a lot in the area.  Nothing I've come across so far's shaken me into tolerance.

[merithyn]

Religion is for the weak. Just like a crutch, and equally useful.

I guess I just view all people as weak at some point in their lives, and if religion helps them keep going, I see no problem with it. In other words, if my twist my ankle, it helps to have a crutch to get on with things.

[fhdz]

What's that like? 

What's what like?

[merithyn]

I don't get it, either, nor do I get the distinctions people draw between religions, or between "real" religions and "things-that-look-like-religions-but-are-not."

But I don't think it is important.  I know that my parents got a lot out of being religious, and I know that I appreciate all the support that the other members of my church give to my mother.  Religion isn't good or bad.  Religious people do good or bad things, just like irreligious people.

Beautifully stated, Grumbler.