Wall Street protesters: We're in for the long haul

[Neil]

Yeah, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.  I don't see those so much as brand names as class items that are suddenly being afforded the status of a protected brand. Artificially introducing authenticity to so many items.

Fair.  I don't think it's artificial for the most part I mean they've been making those pies in that way for a couple of hundred years and similarly with feta and roquefort - some products, interestingly, have decided against going for EU status.  The best example I can think of of something similar in the US is possibly bourbon?  From when I worked in a bar I seem to remember that it had to be made in a certain way, have certain qualities and that some states had additional regulations?

That wouldn't be the same thing though.  If the US were to mandate that bourbon can only be made in Louisiana, and that bourbon made elsewhere must be referred to as 'bourbon-style liquor' then that would be the same.  If it's not made properly, then it's not bourbon, but whiskey, so it's more similar to the EU passing a law that you can't say that cheddar cheese is actually mozzarella.

[Admiral Yi]

I sort of like the EU food naming laws.

[Razgovory]

I sort of like the EU food naming laws.

They sound like protectionism to me, but I don't really care that much.

[Ideologue]

They sound like a minor prong of the EU's war on speech.  The U.S. doesn't even protect commercial speech all that well, but I suppose I shouldn't expect the EU to be even as good.

[Neil]

I sort of like the EU food naming laws.

Aren't you in Iowa?  Any sort of agricultural protection probably puts a smile on your face.

[Admiral Yi]

They sound like protectionism to me, but I don't really care that much.

They help the dissemination of information.  Not that much different from trademark infringement laws.

[Admiral Yi]

Aren't you in Iowa?  Any sort of agricultural protection probably puts a smile on your face.

Be less of a retard Neil.  Iowa exports feed corn and soybeans all around the world.

[Ideologue]

They sound like protectionism to me, but I don't really care that much.

They help the dissemination of information.  Not that much different from trademark infringement laws.

Except it's nothing like that at all, since a trademark has to be owned by a discrete person or, in rare cases (like "superhero"*), persons.  Afaik, it can't be owned by a diffuse group of people.  And it would be bad practice to use a generic, merely descriptive mark like "champagne" or "feta."

And, really, even beyond that, where do you stop?  Shall we go get a burrito-style wrapped bean product at the Taco-style Bell?

*Itself a bad example of a merely descriptive trademark, and one that could probably be handily successfully challenged.

[Admiral Yi]

Except it's nothing like that at all, since a trademark has to be owned by a discrete person or, in rare cases (like "superhero"*), persons.  Afaik, it can't be owned by a diffuse group of people.  And it would be bad practice to use a generic, merely descriptive mark like "champagne" or "feta."

And, really, even beyond that, where do you stop?  Shall we go get a burrito-style wrapped bean product at the Taco-style Bell?

*Itself a bad example of a merely descriptive trademark, and one that could probably be handily successfully challenged.

I agree that there still exists the possibility of, say, an unscrupulous sparkling wine producer in Champagne or an unscrupulous hard cheese producer in Parma free riding on the "brand's" name and turning out crap.  Although I think institutions like DOC limit that possibility.

You stop at the point where a food doesn't have an association any more in the consumer's mind with a particular region.  I've never heard of burritos from any particular region enjoying an enhanced reputation.

[Ideologue]

Except it's nothing like that at all, since a trademark has to be owned by a discrete person or, in rare cases (like "superhero"*), persons.  Afaik, it can't be owned by a diffuse group of people.  And it would be bad practice to use a generic, merely descriptive mark like "champagne" or "feta."

And, really, even beyond that, where do you stop?  Shall we go get a burrito-style wrapped bean product at the Taco-style Bell?

*Itself a bad example of a merely descriptive trademark, and one that could probably be handily successfully challenged.

I agree that there still exists the possibility of, say, an unscrupulous sparkling wine producer in Champagne or an unscrupulous hard cheese producer in Parma free riding on the "brand's" name and turning out crap.  Although I think institutions like DOC limit that possibility.

You stop at the point where a food doesn't have an association any more in the consumer's mind with a particular region.  I've never heard of burritos from any particular region enjoying an enhanced reputation.

To be honest, before this thread, I had no idea feta was supposed to come from Greece exclusively.  I thought it just meant "goat cheese" (although evidently modern production often uses cow's milk instead; it tastes goaty to me, but maybe that's just the brine), which can be made anywhere you have a goat.

[garbon]

You stop at the point where a food doesn't have an association any more in the consumer's mind with a particular region.  I've never heard of burritos from any particular region enjoying an enhanced reputation.

I have. I've heard people talk about San Fransisco-style burritos (when not in SF or mentioning that I lived there) and I think it is pretty well established that Texas and California have preeminence in American style Mexican food.  Should there be a ban on calling food items "Tex Mex" unless they have been made in Texas?

[garbon]

In fact...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_burrito

[Admiral Yi]

I have. I've heard people talk about San Fransisco-style burritos (when not in SF or mentioning that I lived there) and I think it is pretty well established that Texas and California have preeminence in American style Mexican food.  Should there be a ban on calling food items "Tex Mex" unless they have been made in Texas?

OK, I take back the burrito.  A burrito is a recipe, not the result of artisanal food production techniques.

So the cases of food labelling laws that I favor are those that cover food products where there is a body of producers who uphold quality standards among themselves.  If Kobe beef farmers enforce the requirement that their cows be massaged at least once a week with beer, then some industrial ranch down the road shouldn't be allowed to call their beef Kobe.  The farrmers down the road should feel free to start massaging their cows however they like, enforce their own standards, and start building up the brand of Shiku beef.

The arguments about soil, water, etc. aren't as convincing to me, but there again that should be a decision left up to the consumer.  If you don't think the particular grass in the Parma region make a noticeable difference in the taste of cheese, or doesn't justify the price premium, you're free to buy your hard grated cheese (or in the US, your hard grated cheese food product) somewhere else.  The EU is not requiring that all its residents put only cheese made in Parma on their pasta, it's passing on information.

[garbon]

So the cases of food labelling laws that I favor are those that cover food products where there is a body of producers who uphold quality standards among themselves.  If Kobe beef farmers enforce the requirement that their cows be massaged at least once a week with beer, then some industrial ranch down the road shouldn't be allowed to call their beef Kobe.  The farrmers down the road should feel free to start massaging their cows however they like, enforce their own standards, and start building up the brand of Shiku beef.

The arguments about soil, water, etc. aren't as convincing to me, but there again that should be a decision left up to the consumer.  If you don't think the particular grass in the Parma region make a noticeable difference in the taste of cheese, or doesn't justify the price premium, you're free to buy your hard grated cheese (or in the US, your hard grated cheese food product) somewhere else.  The EU is not requiring that all its residents put only cheese made in Parma on their pasta, it's passing on information.

Except that why are certain small enclaves given the ability to determine what will and will not fall under a particular name? Now that I know Parmigiano-Reggiano is one of these items - I think it even more ridiculous. That and its various "imitations" constitute one of the most popular cheeses.

What information is the EU passing on? Simply that and particular set of customs/locales have been designated as the official brand?

[Admiral Yi]

Except that why are certain small enclaves given the ability to determine what will and will not fall under a particular name? Now that I know Parmigiano-Reggiano is one of these items - I think it even more ridiculous. That and its various "imitations" constitute one of the most popular cheeses.

What information is the EU passing on? Simply that and particular set of customs/locales have been designated as the official brand?

It's not any more ridiculous than allowing a limited number of shareholders to dictate to the world which computers can be labelled Macs or which carbonated beverages can be called Coca Cola.

The EU is passing on to the consumer is that the product he's buying is made in a certain location and maintains a certain quality standard.