Wall Street protesters: We're in for the long haul

[MadImmortalMan]

What's a Bellini?

Something women drink at Macaroni Grill.

[Sheilbh]

What's a Bellini?

Sparkling white wine and pureed fruit.  In my experience the inevitable start of the abyss that is serving a hen party

[garbon]

Bellinis are delicious!

[garbon]

What's a Bellini?

Something women drink at Macaroni Grill.

Who goes to Macaroni Grill?

[Darth Wagtaros]

What's a Bellini?

I quite like both Prosecco and belinis. 

[Barrister]

Russia has no quality wine industry to speak of, and Canada just has the niche icewines in southern Ontario, and so there is no incentive to extend reciprocal treatment.  As a matter of national policy, this is sensible enough, but to try to concoct a position of principle out of that policy choice is another matter.

[Eddie Teach]

Who goes to Macaroni Grill?

I'd rather have Stouffer's lasagna or homemade spaghetti.

[Malthus]

Champagne is the name of a product, not simply a variation on a product, just as much as "hamburger" or "bologna".

Champagne's a white wine from the Champagne region, that ferments in bottle (unlike other sparkling wines, to the best of my knowledge) and is only from a list of permitted grapes.  I don't think you could get much more specific.  The name's been associated with that specific type of wine - and with the houses that produce it - for far longer than it's been a 'generic' product.

As far as I can see it's only a generic product for Russians, certain Canadians and some Americans.

And baloney, or bolognia, has been made in the Bolognia region probably for longer than there has been an America.   

Point is it is now, in this day and age, a genericized term in a goodly portion of the world ("only" North America and Russia?  ).

That's how "genericization" works - originally the term (say "kleenex") was unique; then it comes in to general usage to designate a type of product rather than a specific product.

[Malthus]

Champagne's a white wine from the Champagne region, that ferments in bottle (unlike other sparkling wines, to the best of my knowledge)

Not entirely true - there are many non-Champagnes that use the methode champenoise (and there are many that do not).

But otherwise, I agree with the point.

As far as I can see it's only a generic product for Russians, certain Canadians and some Americans.

The US example I think is illustrative.  US wine labelling has always been carefully regulated; why then did the US authorities permit what seems like the misleading practice of calling a wine "Burgundy" that bears no resemblance to an actual burgundy, including the varietals used?  For the same reason the Chinese for many reasons permitted rampant DVD piracy - to protect the interests of a weak domestic industry.

But fast forward several decaded to the point where the US wine industry has made many gains qualititatively and quantitatively, and those same rules start to look inconvenient.  Now the US has names to protect - regional names like Napa and Sonoma, and even more specific designations (AVAs) like Howell Mountain or Russian River.  So the US cut a deal with the EU to give greater protection to designations of geographic origin.

Russia has no quality wine industry to speak of, and Canada just has the niche icewines in southern Ontario, and so there is no incentive to extend reciprocal treatment.  As a matter of national policy, this is sensible enough, but to try to concoct a position of principle out of that policy choice is another matter.

Is it worth pointing out that no-one would know what "Howell Mountain" is if used as a designation for a generic product, so it is not in the same position as "champagne"?

"Pass me some Howell mountain" just doesn't have the same meaning as "pass me some champagne".

The notion that the genericization of the term was the result of deliberate policy choice does not hold water. 

[crazy canuck]

As far as I can see it's only a generic product for Russians, certain Canadians and some Americans.

Dont count Neil as one of us.  He is a self proclaimed ethnic Albertan.  That tells you all you really have to know about him.

Malthus is just playing mental gymnastics.  I would bet my house he would never confuse Champagne with Prosecco.

[Valmy]

That's how "genericization" works - originally the term (say "kleenex") was unique; then it comes in to general usage to designate a type of product rather than a specific product.

Sure when it comes to general usage but last I checked facial tissue from companies other than Kleenex cannot sell their product labeled 'Kleenex' since it is a trademark violation.  I mean does it really matter if the label on the bottle says 'sparking wine' instead of champagne?  We all know what it is.

[chipwich]

That's how "genericization" works - originally the term (say "kleenex") was unique; then it comes in to general usage to designate a type of product rather than a specific product.

Sure when it comes to general usage but last I checked facial tissue from companies other than Kleenex cannot sell their product labeled 'Kleenex' since it is a trademark violation.  I mean does it really matter if the label on the bottle says 'sparking wine' instead of champagne?  We all know what it is.

It's a competitive advantage for the seller if one class of growers can label it Champagne and the others can't.

[crazy canuck]

That's how "genericization" works - originally the term (say "kleenex") was unique; then it comes in to general usage to designate a type of product rather than a specific product.

Sure when it comes to general usage but last I checked facial tissue from companies other than Kleenex cannot sell their product labeled 'Kleenex' since it is a trademark violation.  I mean does it really matter if the label on the bottle says 'sparking wine' instead of champagne?  We all know what it is.

It's a competitive advantage for the seller if one class of growers can label it Champagne and the others can't.

Its also an advantage to consumers who might otherwise be fooled into thinking that what they are buying is Champagne when it isnt.

[DGuller]

Champagne is the name of a product, not simply a variation on a product, just as much as "hamburger" or "bologna".

Champagne's a white wine from the Champagne region, that ferments in bottle (unlike other sparkling wines, to the best of my knowledge) and is only from a list of permitted grapes.  I don't think you could get much more specific.  The name's been associated with that specific type of wine - and with the houses that produce it - for far longer than it's been a 'generic' product.

As far as I can see it's only a generic product for Russians, certain Canadians and some Americans.

And baloney, or bolognia, has been made in the Bolognia region probably for longer than there has been an America.   

Point is it is now, in this day and age, a genericized term in a goodly portion of the world ("only" North America and Russia?  ).

That's how "genericization" works - originally the term (say "kleenex") was unique; then it comes in to general usage to designate a type of product rather than a specific product.

In Russia, bologna or what passes for bologna is called "Doctor's sausage".

[Valmy]

It's a competitive advantage for the seller if one class of growers can label it Champagne and the others can't.

Well duh it is being done for the benefit of producers.  But I have never noticed anybody care, at least over here, that the champagne we were drinking was labelled sparkling wine.  We all know what Champagne looks like.  Price and taste are generally the guideline.