Skyrim

[grumbler]

I have not played Skyrim yet.  I am still working through Oblivion but I was really interested in the Thalmor so I read up on them and what I gathered was that they have an agenda that requires Talos, the only human God, to be destroyed.

That's interesting, since their offical position (and, by compulsion, the official position of the Empire) is that Talos the God does not exist, and never did.  Can you tell me where you found this agenda described that not only had the Thalmor believe that Talos was a god, but that he must be destroyed?

That was the main reason I was asking about spoilers.  Were we only supposed to talk about stuff specifically in the game?  I don't want to spoil anything or annoy anybody.  So I think I will just leave it at that.

It's an interesting question, since what you have found goes far beyond anything I have seen or seen anyone refer to in the game.  I think you can link to it, with proper spoiler warnings, even if it would be too spoilerific to post here.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

one reason or the thalmor to want to eradicate the worship of Talos is that Talos very much represents human ascent, even dominance,  over the elvish. Destroying that might 'convince' -in thalmor reasoning- the humans that from now on altmer especially will be dominant. and once Talos-worship is completely gone and Talos himself forgotten, who will be able to claim otherwise?
A bit of a 1984-trick.

just speculating though

[grumbler]

one reason or the thalmor to want to eradicate the worship of Talos is that Talos very much represents human ascent, even dominance,  over the elvish. Destroying that might 'convince' -in thalmor reasoning- the humans that from now on altmer especially will be dominant. and once Talos-worship is completely gone and Talos himself forgotten, who will be able to claim otherwise?
A bit of a 1984-trick.

just speculating though

I agree that this is the cover story the Thalmor are using (to some extent; you are incorrect in supposing that the cover story includes some means to make people forget Talos himself), but would argue that the Thalmor really don't care all that much about Talos-worship per se (since it openly occurs in several places in Skyrim without them doing anything about it).  If they really cared about Talos worship, they would crush Windhelm and the openly pro-Talos-worship Ulfric.  They don't, though, and it is pretty clear they consider Ulfric an asset (you get indications of this when you do the quest in the Thalmor Embassy).

Talos would remain as a historical character no matter the status of his worship as a god.  It was the historical Talos, not the god, who conquered the Altmer.  The deification of Talos merely served to rub in what was an established historical fact.  That would irritate the Thalmor, but not enough to deflect them from their primary aim, which is unrelated to the number of gods in the shrines of Cyrodill.

[Valmy]

That's interesting, since their offical position (and, by compulsion, the official position of the Empire) is that Talos the God does not exist, and never did.  Can you tell me where you found this agenda described that not only had the Thalmor believe that Talos was a god, but that he must be destroyed?

Imperial Library.  A specific source is developer Michael Kirkbride.

Link: http://www.imperial-library.info/content/forum-archives-michael-kirkbride

See the Altmeri commentary on Talos.  But there is alot more on this topic on the website.

[grumbler]

That's interesting, since their offical position (and, by compulsion, the official position of the Empire) is that Talos the God does not exist, and never did.  Can you tell me where you found this agenda described that not only had the Thalmor believe that Talos was a god, but that he must be destroyed?

Imperial Library.  A specific source is developer Michael Kirkbride.

Link: http://www.imperial-library.info/content/forum-archives-michael-kirkbride

See the Altmeri commentary on Talos.  But there is alot more on this topic on the website. 

Michael Kirkbride hasn't been a developer since Morrowind.  I wouldn't take any of this (undated, unsourced, and not posted by him in this forum) material of his too seriously.  It has long been part of ES lore that the Elves consider themselves to be cursed with mortality and, by rights, immortal (unlike men, who are native to Mundus and not descended from the gods).  There is no further evidence in any of the games that the Mer in general, or the Altmer in particular, or even the Altmer portion of the Thalmor, believe that they can annihilate all men in existence.  Nor is there any evidence elsewhere that any of the Altmeri or other Thalmor actually believe that Tiber Septim became Talos the God.  In fact, The Talos Mistake, issued by the Empire at Thalmor insistence, argues just the opposite.

Plus, "Altmeri" does not equal "Thalmor."  Given that this post isn't lore, and isn't about the Thalmor, and may not even refer to the Skyrim era, I am going to categorize it as "interesting, but not authoritative."

Thanks for the share, though.  I can now see what you meant, and agree that you could be right (though don't agree that the evidence is persuasive).

None of the posts there are spoilerish, except the direct quotes from documents in Skyrim.

[Valmy]

Thanks for the share, though.  I can now see what you meant, and agree that you could be right (though don't agree that the evidence is persuasive).

None of the posts there are spoilerish, except the direct quotes from documents in Skyrim.

Well I did not want to introduce stuff from some lore geek site that may or may not be something that may come up in the game later on.  I find it convincing, not the least because it just sounds like a ES villain motivation.  I mean there are plenty of evil reasons to kill off a ruling dynasty but only in ES would that reason be to open the gates of hell.

[grumbler]

Well I did not want to introduce stuff from some lore geek site that may or may not be something that may come up in the game later on.  I find it convincing, not the least because it just sounds like a ES villain motivation.  I mean there are plenty of evil reasons to kill off a ruling dynasty but only in ES would that reason be to open the gates of hell.  

Yeah, except that the Altmeri are not villains in the ES series.  In fact, the player can be an Altmer.

The villains in the game you are playing, Oblivion, are trying to open the gates of hell, but the Thalmor are a bit more subtle.  They are pretty clearly going for power on earth, as they did in the era of Tiber Septim

[Valmy]

Yeah, except that the Altmeri are not villains in the ES series.  In fact, the player can be an Altmer.

The villains in the game you are playing, Oblivion, are trying to open the gates of hell, but the Thalmor are a bit more subtle.  They are pretty clearly going for power on earth, as they did in the era of Tiber Septim

What is subtle about them simply going for power on earth?  That is very explicit.

[grumbler]

What is subtle about them simply going for power on earth?  That is very explicit.

You will see when you play the game.  They are not overt about going for power at all; they use blinds like (as I pointed out above) the banning of Talos worship, and some others I won't explicitly point out because they come to the PC's attention while doing the quests.

[grumbler]

Got to level 30 with my second toon (first one was retired at about level 35), and realized that I have had about 100 hours of gameplay without replaying a significant quest yet.  And, I have really only spent significant time in Winterhold, Whiterun, and Solitude.  I have not done anything in the main quest, thieves' guild, dark brotherhood, Legion, Stormcloak,

There is one fuck of a lot of game, here.

[Solmyr]

My trek with my first toon through every available quest in the game (main, all joinable guilds, civil war, most sidequests) amounted to 150 hours. Included a lot of crafting and enchanting too.

[Shade]

I had to restart after making a level 30 something that had no fighting skill what so ever.... I was having fun still tho because I could sneak kill just about anything then my Rouges quest broke... and seeing as how that was his whole existence I canned him. Now my new hero Nord is AMAZING! I went 2h weps and bow but this time I actually put points into the weapon skills. I still sneak but I am not focusing on it, yet. I love being able to craft I have full glass at the epic level and it is sweet! I think after I get my smithing to full and either my Bow or 2-h I will start working on my thieving skills starting with sneak. I am already level 27 and I have to say I play on putting more then 200 hours in the game haha.

[Caliga]

I always play these sorts of games as a warrior type.  In my experience they're always unbalanced in favor of warriors so hey, go with the flow.

In this case it makes sense since I *always* play TES games as a Nord, too.

[DontSayBanana]

I've actually been loving the fact that this game doesn't really penalize you for playing something other than a warrior.


I respecced to play as a mage for the Winterhold quest line, and I've actually been having a lot of fun with no weapon necessary, aside from a dagger for occasional sneak-kills.

[Valmy]

I always play these sorts of games as a warrior type.  In my experience they're always unbalanced in favor of warriors so hey, go with the flow.

In this case it makes sense since I *always* play TES games as a Nord, too.

I thought you of all people would play Imperial