Should verbal bullying be a criminal offense?

[Martinus]

This is becoming a hot topic on various gay news sites, as kids are being charged (or there are calls to charge them) with murder for causing a suicide of a bullied gay kid. I wonder what's Languish's opinions are.

[Razgovory]

No, that's asinine.

[Malthus]

I predict this thread will increase the amount of bullying on Languish. 

[Martinus]

For the record, I voted the option no. 3.

[Eddie Teach]

I believe it already is in certain cases, such as making threats.

[viper37]

Bullying in school can be borderline harassment.  AFAIK, schools of all the world forbid behaviors that woudln't be criminal outside, and likely, verbal abuse is an offense in school and not in adult life.  So, it's a problem for schools to deal with, or suffer consequences.  Like a work place.  If one employee is constantly bullyed/harassed by another group and the employer does nothing, he can be held liable for the consequences.

Schools have to take their responsibilities.

[Barrister]

For the record, I voted the option no. 3.

Well except that we already criminalize various types of speech.  Threats in particular, but in some circumstances criminal harassment also comprosies only speech.

But the trouble is - what actions constitute "bullying"?  How do you come up with a definition that is broad enough to catch the kinds of behaviour you want to stop, yet narrow enough to avoid criminalizing every mean thing said.

I have no idea.

I'd be in favour of the concept of outlawing bullying, but I suspect in practice it's almost unworkable.

[Martinus]

Bullying in school can be borderline harassment.  AFAIK, schools of all the world forbid behaviors that woudln't be criminal outside, and likely, verbal abuse is an offense in school and not in adult life.  So, it's a problem for schools to deal with, or suffer consequences.  Like a work place.  If one employee is constantly bullyed/harassed by another group and the employer does nothing, he can be held liable for the consequences.

Schools have to take their responsibilities.

I have no problem with that. I think the push now is for this to become a criminal offense, however, which I think crosses the line.

[The Brain]

Sounds like a work environment issue.

[Josquius]

Yes. To hold someone responsible for murder is mad but they should certainly take some of the blame.

[DontSayBanana]

Why are we so concerned with coming up with a new category?  Harassment is still harassment when kids do it- hold them accountable when it's severe enough to cause injury/drive someone to suicide.  Otherwise, let kids be kids.  This "bullying law" nonsense smacks strongly of just forcing kids who may not even understand what they're doing to be held accountable for every mean comment.

[Martinus]

Why are we so concerned with coming up with a new category?  Harassment is still harassment when kids do it- hold them accountable when it's severe enough to cause injury/drive someone to suicide.  Otherwise, let kids be kids.  This "bullying law" nonsense smacks strongly of just forcing kids who may not even understand what they're doing to be held accountable for every mean comment.

I agree. However, do we really want to make it punishable if it "drives someone to suicide"? Isn't it a bit against the eggshell skull rule - I mean, chances are than in 99% of cases when someone commits suicide as a result of bullying, an average person wouldn't off himself or herself when subjected to the same type of bullying.

I think we are having with a new outbreak of moral panic.

[Neil]

But the last outbreak isn't even over yet.

[Ideologue]

Why are we so concerned with coming up with a new category?  Harassment is still harassment when kids do it- hold them accountable when it's severe enough to cause injury/drive someone to suicide.  Otherwise, let kids be kids.  This "bullying law" nonsense smacks strongly of just forcing kids who may not even understand what they're doing to be held accountable for every mean comment.

I agree. However, do we really want to make it punishable if it "drives someone to suicide"? Isn't it a bit against the eggshell skull rule - I mean, chances are than in 99% of cases when someone commits suicide as a result of bullying, an average person wouldn't off himself or herself when subjected to the same type of bullying.

I think we are having with a new outbreak of moral panic.

That is the eggshell skull rule.  You take your victim as you find him.

You're describing an intervening cause, which in this case would obviously be the suicide's own volitional act of self-harm.

[Martinus]

I thought the eggshell skull rule was the opposite - i.e. you are not responsible for the victim acting in an abnormally sensitive manner. But you may be right under common law. Under Polish law, one is only liable for normal, reasonable consequences of one's actions.