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Interesting results from CERN's LHC

Started by Richard Hakluyt, September 22, 2011, 12:57:45 PM

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Richard Hakluyt

September 22, 2011, 12:57:45 PM
FTL!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15017484

There have been a few articles of this ilk lately; looks like the standard model could be in trouble.

Neil

#1
September 22, 2011, 01:23:29 PM
That's interesting.  I wonder what the LHC uses to detect neutrinos.  We'll definitely see some more experiments along this line to see if they can confirm the data, or if there was some kind of experimental error.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

crazy canuck

#2
September 22, 2011, 01:23:38 PM
I dont know enough to know how significant particles traveling faster than light is to our current understanding.  Can someone help with that.  Paging Hamilcar...

Viking

#3
September 22, 2011, 01:32:18 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on September 22, 2011, 12:57:45 PM
FTL!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15017484

There have been a few articles of this ilk lately; looks like the standard model could be in trouble.

Much more than the standard model would be in trouble. All of physics since 1905 will need to be rethought if light speed is not as we understand it. This is, however, not the first time light speed seems to have been exceeded. Speculation has been that apparent breaking of the speed limit is related to Quantum Entanglement (which, bizarrely seems to transmit information at infinite speed).

This is one of those Fossile Rabbit in the Pre-Cambrian moments. If true, this can potentially completely change physics. 
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.

HVC

#4
September 22, 2011, 01:32:57 PM
my understand of our current understanding is that nothing is supposed to go faster then light. Nature is so against breaking that law that as you approach the speed of light it slows down time so that you can't go faster.
Being lazy is bad; unless you still get what you want, then it's called "patience".
Hubris must be punished. Severely.

The Brain

#5
September 22, 2011, 01:40:40 PM
Ah, the Skorzeny effect: showing up unexpectedly at Gran Sasso.
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

Viking

#6
September 22, 2011, 01:48:56 PM
Quote from: HVC on September 22, 2011, 01:32:57 PM
my understand of our current understanding is that nothing is supposed to go faster then light. Nature is so against breaking that law that as you approach the speed of light it slows down time so that you can't go faster.

To be technical, nothing can appear to go faster than light; this includes a thing observing itself going faster than light. But yes, basically that is true. However Quantum Entanglement seems to suggest that information might move faster than light.
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.

Neil

#7
September 22, 2011, 01:51:29 PM
Quote from: HVC on September 22, 2011, 01:32:57 PM
my understand of our current understanding is that nothing is supposed to go faster then light. Nature is so against breaking that law that as you approach the speed of light it slows down time so that you can't go faster.
Special relativity allows for superluminal particles with mass, but noone has ever detected a tachyon.  Tau neutrinos are definitely sub-luminal particles, as is every other particle with a mass that we've detected.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

HVC

#8
September 22, 2011, 02:05:05 PM
Quote from: Viking on September 22, 2011, 01:48:56 PM
Quote from: HVC on September 22, 2011, 01:32:57 PM
my understand of our current understanding is that nothing is supposed to go faster then light. Nature is so against breaking that law that as you approach the speed of light it slows down time so that you can't go faster.

To be technical, nothing can appear to go faster than light; this includes a thing observing itself going faster than light. But yes, basically that is true. However Quantum Entanglement seems to suggest that information might move faster than light.
what does information mean in this context?
Being lazy is bad; unless you still get what you want, then it's called "patience".
Hubris must be punished. Severely.

Razgovory

#9
September 22, 2011, 02:06:11 PM
It means we have to remeasure all the stars to find out how far away they are all over again.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Fate

#10
September 22, 2011, 02:07:58 PM
Quote from: Viking on September 22, 2011, 01:48:56 PM
However Quantum Entanglement seems to suggest that information might move faster than light.
Are you sure about that? Wiki's description of quantum entanglement is that no information is conveyed.

crazy canuck

#11
September 22, 2011, 02:08:06 PM
Quote from: Viking on September 22, 2011, 01:32:18 PM
All of physics since 1905 will need to be rethought if light speed is not as we understand it.

Why is that?

Barrister

#12
September 22, 2011, 02:10:23 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 22, 2011, 02:06:11 PM
It means we have to remeasure all the stars to find out how far away they are all over again.

That'll take a really long measuring tape. :huh:
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

HVC

#13
September 22, 2011, 02:11:26 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 22, 2011, 02:08:06 PM
Quote from: Viking on September 22, 2011, 01:32:18 PM
All of physics since 1905 will need to be rethought if light speed is not as we understand it.

Why is that?
no more time travel? :D

Ya, i'm not sure either. the possibility of things moving faster then light shouldn't effect the study or knowledge of stuff we know isn't moving faster then light.
Being lazy is bad; unless you still get what you want, then it's called "patience".
Hubris must be punished. Severely.

Viking

#14
September 22, 2011, 02:21:22 PM
Quote from: Fate on September 22, 2011, 02:07:58 PM
Quote from: Viking on September 22, 2011, 01:48:56 PM
However Quantum Entanglement seems to suggest that information might move faster than light.
Are you sure about that? Wiki's description of quantum entanglement is that no information is conveyed.

I'm not sure, that is why I hedge my comments with "seems" and "might".
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.
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