France Bans Public Prayer

[crazy canuck]

What the fuck?  The French state does not care how you worship so long as you do not make a public show of it because of that 500 year history thing.

Valmy you are not really that dense. The State does not care how you worship so long as you worship in a manner deemed acceptable by the State.  I dont really care much what the historical justification is the State uses for banning worshippers from using a public space.  If there is no other interest involved (here blockage of traffic) I dont see any reason why the State should interfere at all.

I find it stricking that the French (and you being almost French) have such a cavalier attitude toward matters of freedom of expression and religion.

[Zoupa]

The State does not care how you worship so long as you worship in a manner deemed acceptable by the State. 

That's the case in every single country in the world. Don't be dense either.

I find it stricking that the French (and you being almost French) have such a cavalier attitude toward matters of freedom of expression and religion.

Freedom of religion only goes so far as all other freedoms. They must not infringe on others. A literal interpretation of all religions out there would impose things that would be illegal in any democracy.

[crazy canuck]

That's the case in every single country in the world. Don't be dense either.

I am not aware of any other civilized countries in which the public practice of religion is banned.  Here religious groups often use public spaces such as parks to hold religious events.

I am somewhat mystified as to what it is about religion that the French feel restricting the freedom to worship to be imperative and indeed normal.

[Zoupa]

I am not aware of any other civilized countries in which the public practice of religion is banned.

Don't move the goalposts. What you said was:

The State does not care how you worship so long as you worship in a manner deemed acceptable by the State.

That statement is accurate for every country in the world. States impose restrictions on religious practice everywhere. Hence the no polygamy laws targeting Mormons. It's also not possible to lapidate women in BC I believe. STOP THE PRESSES! MY FREEDOMS ARE BEING RESTRICTED!!!

[Zoupa]

I am somewhat mystified as to what it is about religion that the French feel restricting the freedom to worship to be imperative and indeed normal.

I can only give you my opinion, which is that religion is not a positive influence. Personally, I find practicing religious people of any faith weird, backwards and sorta dumb.

[Razgovory]

Why does a 500 year history matter?

[dps]

That's the case in every single country in the world. Don't be dense either.

I am not aware of any other civilized countries in which the public practice of religion is banned.  Here religious groups often use public spaces such as parks to hold religious events.

I am somewhat mystified as to what it is about religion that the French feel restricting the freedom to worship to be imperative and indeed normal.

It's not about religion, really, it's about state control.  The specific issue being discussed in this thread involves religion, but what actually being debated is what is the limit of the public sphere versus the private sphere in modern society, and how they should interact.   Many Europeans appear to be comfortable with a level of government control over anything that's in the public sphere that just wouldn't fly in the US (and, from your reaction, apparantly not in Canada), and also with a broader definition of what constitues the public sphere than we'd normally acknowledge in the US.

[Viking]

I know I might be expected to comment on this, me being Languish's Dawkins wannabe. But I have to side with muslims on this one. If there isn't a law against sitting on the sidewalk then making a law to ban praying on the sidewalk is religious discrimination. If there is a law against sitting on the sidewalk then that law should be sufficient. The real discrimination is the inability of muslims to get enough space for prayer. They want it and they are willing to spend money on it, but they can't buy and they cant get planning permission.

[Zoupa]

They're not sitting on the sidewalk. They're on the actual road.

[crazy canuck]

I am not aware of any other civilized countries in which the public practice of religion is banned.

Don't move the goalposts. What you said was:

The State does not care how you worship so long as you worship in a manner deemed acceptable by the State.

That statement is accurate for every country in the world. States impose restrictions on religious practice everywhere. Hence the no polygamy laws targeting Mormons. It's also not possible to lapidate women in BC I believe. STOP THE PRESSES! MY FREEDOMS ARE BEING RESTRICTED!!!

The big white elephant in the room you are trying to avoid is the justification of why the State should care if people worship in public.

[Oexmelin]

They're not sitting on the sidewalk. They're on the actual road.

Indeed. It was the case close to where I lived, in the XIth. Besides, Paris sidewalks barely accomodate pedestrians...

[Warspite]

I am not aware of any other civilized countries in which the public practice of religion is banned.

Don't move the goalposts. What you said was:

The State does not care how you worship so long as you worship in a manner deemed acceptable by the State.

That statement is accurate for every country in the world. States impose restrictions on religious practice everywhere. Hence the no polygamy laws targeting Mormons. It's also not possible to lapidate women in BC I believe. STOP THE PRESSES! MY FREEDOMS ARE BEING RESTRICTED!!!

The difference between prayer and lapidation, of course, is that the former deprives no one of their liberty, and thus the state should have no business prohibiting it.

[Viking]

Can't the Paris police just arrest people for obstructing traffic for sitting in the street rather than making a law for mooselimbs?

[Martinus]

Watch us. 

You frogs may be a bunch of arrogant pricks but I still love you.

[Zoupa]

Can't the Paris police just arrest people for obstructing traffic for sitting in the street rather than making a law for mooselimbs?

It's not a law for muslims, it's a law against praying ON the street in any way that disrupts the movements of men or goods.