France Bans Public Prayer

[Viking]

OK, in that case, what's the need for the law?

Political posturing.

France's National Assembly likes to enact law without being the least concerned about applicability. Or, sometimes, compliance with the European Human Rights Commission.

and you wonder why we hate the french? q.e.d.

[jimmy olsen]

On a re-read, the only people who posted and opposed the law clearly were BB, CC, dps, Warspite, Viking and raz.

Me too!

[Duque de Bragança]

The french mindset sees religion as something private, that has no place in the public sphere. In most cases people don't even know what religion their political leaders follow.

For example former Prime Minister Jospin is protestant. I only found out last year. It just never occurred to me to inquire what faith if any he follows, I was watching an Italian documentary when they mentioned it.

Protestant upbringing yes, not sure if he is still a Protestant though.

[Duque de Bragança]

that's different from the rest of western europe how?

It is different in that laïcité has become one of the cornerstone of the Republic. Other countries in Western Europe have had the Reformation - in which the State took direct control of the Church -  or not a very good track record of Republicanism, and a Catholic Church totally compromised with authoritarian power (Spain, Portugal).

Portugal had its laïcité of its own following the 1910 republican revolution and the Church took a stance against the régime at the end unlike Spain.

[CountDeMoney]

I whollly support France's stand on pretentiously flicking cigarette ashes on anything Islamic.  Vive Le Revolution

[Admiral Yi]

On a re-read, the only people who posted and opposed the law clearly were BB, CC, dps, Warspite, Viking and raz.

Me too!

I thought the law was goofy.

[Razgovory]

On a re-read, the only people who posted and opposed the law clearly were BB, CC, dps, Warspite, Viking and raz.

Me too!

I thought the law was goofy.

I didn't actually take a stand, so I'm not sure what Marty is talking about.  I didn't understand exactly what is happening, and so refrained from giving an opinion.  I did ask one question and made a snide comment directed at Siege (I think).

[Eddie Teach]

I don't know what the law actually will do, but it sounds discriminatory. Seems someone handing out religious pamphlets on a sidewalk might be in violation, while someone handing out political or business related materials will be hunky dory. 

[Valmy]

The main religious laws I think violate freedom of religion in France are their arbitrary anti-cult laws.  They can basically outlaw any religion they like simply by classifying it a cult rather than a religion.  Granted I am not exactly sympathetic to any of the groups that France has lowered this particular hammer on but it does strike me as crossing the line.  While being a member of a Kool-Aid cult is not exactly a behavior I would recomend people should have the freedom to be morons.  Besides distinguishing 'religions' and 'cults' is arbitrary and this years cult could be next years religion.  See: Mormons.

This particular law does not interfere with people's ability to be Muslims, at least not explicitely, it only addresses a specific problem and accomadations are being made by the government to aid these Muslims by giving them places to do their prayers.  But, as Oex says, there are layers to this and the root of the problem is the inability to build Mosques in Paris itself because, heck, building a new building of any sort in Paris proper is debilitatingly expensive and very difficult besides.

[Razgovory]

I don't know what the law actually will do, but it sounds discriminatory. Seems someone handing out religious pamphlets on a sidewalk might be in violation, while someone handing out political or business related materials will be hunky dory. 

I don't see a problem requiring permits for demonstrations so long as they are given out fairly.  To me it doesn't really matter if the permits are for a political protest, a prayer thingy, or a pillow fight.  I would draw the line on dumping large amounts of manure on the road.

[Valmy]

and you wonder why we hate the french? q.e.d.

I just presumed it was because you hate most people.

[Martinus]

The main religious laws I think violate freedom of religion in France are their arbitrary anti-cult laws.  They can basically outlaw any religion they like simply by classifying it a cult rather than a religion.  Granted I am not exactly sympathetic to any of the groups that France has lowered this particular hammer on but it does strike me as crossing the line.  While being a member of a Kool-Aid cult is not exactly a behavior I would recomend people should have the freedom to be morons.  Besides distinguishing 'religions' and 'cults' is arbitrary and this years cult could be next years religion.  See: Mormons.

This particular law does not interfere with people's ability to be Muslims, at least not explicitely, it only addresses a specific problem and accomadations are being made by the government to aid these Muslims by giving them places to do their prayers.  But, as Oex says, there are layers to this and the root of the problem is the inability to build Mosques in Paris itself because, heck, building a new building of any sort in Paris proper is debilitatingly expensive and very difficult besides.

America should give up war on drugs and then start mentoring others about "people being allowed to be morons".

In Europe, we consider religions more socially damaging than drugs. 

[Valmy]

America should give up war on drugs and then start mentoring others about "people being allowed to be morons".

In Europe, we consider religions more socially damaging than drugs. 

Couldn't agree more about the drug bit.  But um...drugs are still illegal in Euroland last I checked.

[Martinus]

America should give up war on drugs and then start mentoring others about "people being allowed to be morons".

In Europe, we consider religions more socially damaging than drugs. 

Couldn't agree more about the drug bit.  But um...drugs are still illegal in Euroland last I checked.

They are not criminalized in Portugal, several European countries do not outlaw (or prosecute) possession of small amounts "for personal uses"  and most European countries do not prosecute drug users with half of the zeal that the US has.

[Valmy]

They are legal in Portugal, and most European countries do not prosecute drug users with half of the zeal that the US has.

Good for Portugal.  Why are you bringing up this drug stuff anyway?  You know I am in favor of legalizing drugs.