Who has a better chance of winning with Obama?

[Admiral Yi]

Something tells me that pundits oversimplifying SS is not, in fact, the number one problem.

I figure it doesn't make the top five.

[Ideologue]

You all know what the number one problem with Social Security is?  Pundits and wannabe-intellectuals oversimplify it, especially you, Yi.  There are several different programs that have nothing to do with each other that fall under the blanket of the Social Security Administration.  You're all bickering about social security retirement when you also have two straight welfare programs (social security permanent disability, supplemental security income) and an insurance-basis program (temporary disability).

Which could all be replaced with a guaranteed income.

[MadImmortalMan]

What would we do with the tallied lifetime SSA contribution figures we all get every once in a while showing what we've paid in? People will want that money back if we just switch to some other system.

[Sheilbh]

The stated goal I think is "financial security" for retirees.  Which simple survival is an aspect of.

But not all, I'd say simple survival's the bare foundation of 'financial security'. 

Does housing form a part of 'financial security'?

What would we do with the tallied lifetime SSA contribution figures we all get every once in a while showing what we've paid in? People will want that money back if we just switch to some other system.

I don't think anyone can just switch their pension system.  Reform needs to be introduced gradually and phased in to protect people who've been contributing throughout their working lives and to fully inform people at the start of them.

That's one of the worries I have with our system.  We've got a pretty poor flat-rate state pension with a contributory element (but I think it's linked to how many years you've contributed, not how much) and then various universal elements that go to the elderly (like a winter fuel allowance, free prescriptions) and some that are means tested.  It's generally accepted that the state pension's going to be poor and not really designed to be lived on alone.

Because of that recent governments have been pushing private pensions.  I think you now have to opt in to company pension schemes and they've set up a low cost pension scheme for small employers or low-paid workers to join.  All of which is fine but I think that (that's the simple version) that it's all got rather confusing and that most people just don't know.  All anyone my age knows is that you should join a pension scheme as soon as possible.

Sadly a lot of my friends (recent graduates) aren't getting 'employed' for their work.  They're basically told to set themselves up as 'self-emloyed' consultants for their respective companies who then don't have to offer them employment benefits or holidays, or, always, the minimum wage.  Add that to the general employment and housing situation for people my age and it's not a good time.  Whenever I talk about it with friends we're not sure if our generation's getting fucked or it'll just mean that we'll have very sharp elbows.

On the other hand better us than a 40 year old with family.

[Habsburg]

omg.

The Tea Bagger debate is a mug slingingfest, LOVZ IT! 

Paul and Bachmann are going after Perry, and Perry hasn't performed well under pressure! 

[Habsburg]

No hostages taken.

I'll be interesting to see a good poll after this one.

[Richard Hakluyt]

Sadly a lot of my friends (recent graduates) aren't getting 'employed' for their work.  They're basically told to set themselves up as 'self-emloyed' consultants for their respective companies who then don't have to offer them employment benefits or holidays, or, always, the minimum wage.  Add that to the general employment and housing situation for people my age and it's not a good time.  Whenever I talk about it with friends we're not sure if our generation's getting fucked or it'll just mean that we'll have very sharp elbows.

On the other hand better us than a 40 year old with family.

There have been shitty times before, the early 1980s sticks in my memory..........and often the worst burdens are placed on the young and inexperienced. I don't like these "jobs" that don't pay though; at least in the 80s we were free to lounge on the beach, fornicate and drink beer (though only a very self-indulgent minority did all three at once) 

[Ideologue]

Sadly a lot of my friends (recent graduates) aren't getting 'employed' for their work.  They're basically told to set themselves up as 'self-emloyed' consultants for their respective companies who then don't have to offer them employment benefits or holidays, or, always, the minimum wage.  Add that to the general employment and housing situation for people my age and it's not a good time.  Whenever I talk about it with friends we're not sure if our generation's getting fucked or it'll just mean that we'll have very sharp elbows.

On the other hand better us than a 40 year old with family.

Incorrect.  There is no class of people more important than a class to which I happen to belong.

[Barrister]

There have been shitty times before, the early 1980s sticks in my memory..........and often the worst burdens are placed on the young and inexperienced. I don't like these "jobs" that don't pay though; at least in the 80s we were free to lounge on the beach, fornicate and drink beer (though only a very self-indulgent minority did all three at once) 

So which did you forgo in the 80s?  I know I can strike "drink beer" from the list...

[Richard Hakluyt]

There have been shitty times before, the early 1980s sticks in my memory..........and often the worst burdens are placed on the young and inexperienced. I don't like these "jobs" that don't pay though; at least in the 80s we were free to lounge on the beach, fornicate and drink beer (though only a very self-indulgent minority did all three at once) 

So which did you forgo in the 80s?  I know I can strike "drink beer" from the list...

Why, none of them of course 

It's just that doing all three at the same time strikes me as excessively hedonistic.

[Eddie Teach]

Upon reflection, I've got to say the person with the best chance of winning with Obama is Joe Biden. 

[Sheilbh]

There have been shitty times before, the early 1980s sticks in my memory..........and often the worst burdens are placed on the young and inexperienced. I don't like these "jobs" that don't pay though; at least in the 80s we were free to lounge on the beach, fornicate and drink beer (though only a very self-indulgent minority did all three at once) 

Oh, of course.  It's the combination of factors that seems bad.  We won't get the pensions, won't have the houses, a lot of people have to do unpaid internships for months to get any work, those who get jobs often have to sign on as 'temporary consultants' and the hiring recession's just going on and on and there doesn't look like there'll be any recovery coming any time soon.

[DontSayBanana]

Which could all be replaced with a guaranteed income.

Agreed.  I'm not sure if I mentioned earlier, but my personal beef with the social security umbrella is that the largest component is net-loss social welfare that could just as easily be replaced with net-gain workforce retraining (much shorter term of collection, taxes resume once the payee has re-entered the workforce).

[DGuller]

Which could all be replaced with a guaranteed income.

Agreed.  I'm not sure if I mentioned earlier, but my personal beef with the social security umbrella is that the largest component is net-loss social welfare that could just as easily be replaced with net-gain workforce retraining (much shorter term of collection, taxes resume once the payee has re-entered the workforce).

Do you ever have any idea of what you're trying to say?  I sure don't.  How about explaining the points you're trying to make, instead of trying to sound too clever for comprehension?

[DontSayBanana]

Do you ever have any idea of what you're trying to say?  I sure don't.  How about explaining the points you're trying to make, instead of trying to sound too clever for comprehension?

Learn to fucking read.  Instead of bleeding out SSTF money to retirees for the remainders of their lives, we invest in career reeducation; not only do the beneficiaries stop collecting much sooner, they resume paying into Social Security once they're settled into more appropriate employment.  What the hell is so difficult to comprehend about that?

Lots of people don't want to work; we shouldn't reward it just because they're old.