Obama Jobs Plan

[DGuller]

Spain had a surplus???

Yes?  I'm surprised that's news for you.

[Ed Anger]

Fuck the young people. Worthless young people. Only good for slicing their wrists.

[Sheilbh]

I think it'll be interesting to look at the plan.  I turn over to find Congress interrupting and applauding

I'm now back to non-news channels.

[Admiral Yi]

Yep.  Spain had a surplus and a very low debt as % of GDP prior to the crisis.  There was talk of this being unsustainably based on a construction boom, property taxes (similar in Ireland) and a flood of cheap credit, but high government spending didn't sustain the Spain prior to the crisis.  Equally the Spanish, and Italian and Portuguese welfare states weren't terribly effective, or generous unless you're elderly.

So we're agreed then that Spain was running significant deficits post-crisis?

Yeah, sorry on Portugal.  Their deficit was above the EU and the Portuguese average for most of the last decade - though again that was facilitated by very low bond yields.  So the markets didn't disagree for a very long time.

That's the point I was trying to make in the US thread.  Bond markets think your debt is sustainable until they don't.

[MadImmortalMan]

So far, I see in here:

1: A tax cut for hiring employees

2: An infrastructure bank

3: Repair schools

4: Tax credits for hiring veterans

5: $4000 tax credit for hiring someone who has been looking for work for longer than 6 months (interesting)

6: Keep the payroll tax cut



And this:

It will be paid for.  And here's how:

The agreement we passed in July will cut government spending by about $1 trillion over the next ten years.  It also charges this Congress to come up with an additional $1.5 trillion in savings by Christmas.  Tonight, I'm asking you to increase that amount so that it covers the full cost of the American Jobs Act.

Man, I doubt the superretardcongress will even be able to accomplish the original mission, Mr. President.

[Siege]

I'm watching the speech.

He is talking shit as always. A friggin demagogue.

Just because he wishes for more jobs, there are not going to be more jobs.

[Admiral Yi]

So far, I see in here:

1: A tax cut for hiring employees

Tax cut for corporate fat cats. 

2: An infrastructure bank

wtf?

4: Tax credits for hiring veterans

5: $4000 tax credit for hiring someone who has been looking for work for longer than 6 months (interesting)

Tax cuts for corporate fat cats. 

[Siege]

I'm tired of this guy and his ideology.

[Sheilbh]

So we're agreed then that Spain was running significant deficits post-crisis?

Yes, but that's irrelevant to this:

Sort of MIM.  Take the PIIGS as an example.  Their economies were previously inflated by unsustainable deficit spending.  When you remove that, the economy deflates.  Surprise, surprise.

That's the point I was trying to make in the US thread.  Bond markets think your debt is sustainable until they don't.

The US isn't comparable with any of those countries though.  The key to their deficit, debt, bond crisis is the Euro.  The US doesn't have a Germany for the markets to focus on.

[Neil]

"-- it is fully paid for by closing corporate tax loopholes and asking the wealthiest Americans to pay their fair share"

This will go over like beer in Church with the Tea Baggers and many in the GOP.

INCOME REDISTIRBUTION!!!1!

Depends on what 'fair share' means.  I mean, I'm sure the Tea Party lunatics will whine and cry no matter what, but an increase in taxation would be good, especially if you structure it in a way that also gets money out of the middle class.

Still, if Obama's counting on a GOP House to pass a tax increase, he's going to be disappointed.  I have a hard time imagining circumstances where the GOP leadership could get a tax increase through, even if they were inclined to do so.

[Ed Anger]

I'll start paring down my workforce so I can hire some long term unemployed and get my tax credits.

[Valmy]

I'm tired of this guy and his ideology.

He has an ideology?

In any case if you are tired of him don't watch his speeches.

[Admiral Yi]

So we're agreed then that Spain was running significant deficits post-crisis?

Yes, but that's irrelevant to this:

Sort of MIM.  Take the PIIGS as an example.  Their economies were previously inflated by unsustainable deficit spending.  When you remove that, the economy deflates.  Surprise, surprise.

Irrelevant how?  The sustainability part?

The US isn't comparable with any of those countries though.  The key to their deficit, debt, bond crisis is the Euro.  The US doesn't have a Germany for the markets to focus on.

No idea what you mean by this.

[Neil]

I'll start paring down my workforce so I can hire some long term unemployed and get my tax credits.

Yeah, I think that's an unintended consequence.  Still, at least unemployment amongst the unskilled will rotate a bit.

[Sheilbh]

Irrelevant how?  The sustainability part?

The Spanish economy wasn't inflated by unsustainable deficit spending and that isn't a part in why the economy deflated.  As I say, you're only describing Greece I think that acronym simplifies but also confuses very different situations that actually need different solutions.

No idea what you mean by this.

The Italian, Portuguese and Spanish bond yield is still historically low compared to their national averages.  They got artificially low rates for much of the past decade because of the effects of the Euro.  The US hasn't experienced anything like that (though I wonder if municipalities and states within the US have?). 

Of course the Spanish (and Irish) are an exception, again, they had surpluses or balanced budgets and spent most of the past decade paying down their national debt.