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Bush vs. Gore/Kerry II: The Recountening

Started by Kleves, September 08, 2011, 01:37:52 PM

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Would your vote for President in 2000 and 2004 be the same today as it was/would have been at the time?

Unchanged: Bush
8 (25.8%)
Unchanged: Bush/Kerry
0 (0%)
Unchanged: Gore/Kerry
17 (54.8%)
Unchanged: Gore/Bush
1 (3.2%)
Changed: Bush
0 (0%)
Changed: Bush/Kerry
0 (0%)
Changed: Gore/Kerry
1 (3.2%)
Changed: Gore/Bush
1 (3.2%)
I voted for a third-party candidate, so what I think doesn't matter!
3 (9.7%)

Total Members Voted: 30

MadImmortalMan

Quote from: Razgovory on September 08, 2011, 02:37:55 PM
I have a hard time imagining anyone but Bush would have invaded Iraq.  It's not really the most obvious thing someone would do.


I have a hard time imagining any hypothetical electable US President who would not have invaded Iraq. It was bound to happen. If Gore didn't, Kerry definitely would have.
"Stability is destabilizing." --Hyman Minsky

"Complacency can be a self-denying prophecy."
"We have nothing to fear but lack of fear itself." --Larry Summers


MadImmortalMan

Saddam was determined to push the issue. Eventually, he'd have pushed far enough for the security council to want to smash him.
"Stability is destabilizing." --Hyman Minsky

"Complacency can be a self-denying prophecy."
"We have nothing to fear but lack of fear itself." --Larry Summers

Admiral Yi

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on September 08, 2011, 04:55:32 PM
I have a hard time imagining any hypothetical electable US President who would not have invaded Iraq. It was bound to happen. If Gore didn't, Kerry definitely would have.

That's nuts.

It's also very debateable whether a Democratic president would have invaded Afghanistan.

Sheilbh

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on September 08, 2011, 04:55:32 PMI have a hard time imagining any hypothetical electable US President who would not have invaded Iraq. It was bound to happen. If Gore didn't, Kerry definitely would have.
I disagree.  I don't think Iraq would have happened under Gore and I think he'd still be benefiting from the post-9/11 and Afghanistan boost that would make it difficult for the right or anyone else to challenge him.

Incidentally it's worth remembering that Bush 2000 ran on the idea of a 'humble foreign policy': no more nation building and pointless intervention in far-away lands.  So the Republicans wouldn't necessarily be identified as the neo-con party without the White House. 
Let's bomb Russia!

Sheilbh

Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 08, 2011, 04:59:39 PMIt's also very debateable whether a Democratic president would have invaded Afghanistan.
That's insane.  Any President, even Kucinich, would have invaded Afghanistan.
Let's bomb Russia!

Admiral Yi

Quote from: Sheilbh on September 08, 2011, 05:02:58 PM
That's insane.  Any President, even Kucinich, would have invaded Afghanistan.

It's very easy for me to imagine a scenario in which Gore or Kerry accept the Taliban's request to "consider" the US's request for extradition.  Then OBL slips off to another country.  No invasion.

Barrister

Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 08, 2011, 05:06:38 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on September 08, 2011, 05:02:58 PM
That's insane.  Any President, even Kucinich, would have invaded Afghanistan.

It's very easy for me to imagine a scenario in which Gore or Kerry accept the Taliban's request to "consider" the US's request for extradition.  Then OBL slips off to another country.  No invasion.

I don't buy it.  Besides, it's not like it was much of an invasion at first by the US - just air strikes and special forces.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

Barrister

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on September 08, 2011, 04:59:05 PM
Saddam was determined to push the issue. Eventually, he'd have pushed far enough for the security council to want to smash him.

He was?

And remember, even in reality, the security council didn't want to smash him.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

DGuller

Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 08, 2011, 05:06:38 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on September 08, 2011, 05:02:58 PM
That's insane.  Any President, even Kucinich, would have invaded Afghanistan.

It's very easy for me to imagine a scenario in which Gore or Kerry accept the Taliban's request to "consider" the US's request for extradition.  Then OBL slips off to another country.  No invasion.
That's insane.  Taliban was already at "dishonorable scum" level in 2001 even before 9/11, and there is no conceivable way they would've escaped heavy retribution after such an act of war. 

Invasion of Afghanistan wasn't prompted by Bush or Republicans; it was pretty much a foregone conclusion on 9/12 that we'd be there, it was just a matter of figuring out the sequence of events that would culminate in that.

jimmy olsen

#25
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 08, 2011, 05:06:38 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on September 08, 2011, 05:02:58 PM
That's insane.  Any President, even Kucinich, would have invaded Afghanistan.

It's very easy for me to imagine a scenario in which Gore or Kerry accept the Taliban's request to "consider" the US's request for extradition.  Then OBL slips off to another country.  No invasion.
This must be the stupidest thing that's ever been posted on Languish. It goes beyond Hansian in its absolute delusion. Congress would declare war against Afghansitan and quickly impeach and convict any President who refused to invade Afghanistan.
It is far better for the truth to tear my flesh to pieces, then for my soul to wander through darkness in eternal damnation.

Jet: So what kind of woman is she? What's Julia like?
Faye: Ordinary. The kind of beautiful, dangerous ordinary that you just can't leave alone.
Jet: I see.
Faye: Like an angel from the underworld. Or a devil from Paradise.
--------------------------------------------
1 Karma Chameleon point

Sheilbh

Yeah.  I've literally never met anyone who opposed the Afghan war.  I can't believe that someone could believe that it somehow depended on the President.
Let's bomb Russia!

Ideologue

I'm not gonna name-call, but it is a pretty absurd notion, old friend.
Kinemalogue
Current reviews: The 'Burbs (9/10); Gremlins 2: The New Batch (9/10); John Wick: Chapter 2 (9/10); A Cure For Wellness (4/10)

Admiral Yi

Quote from: DGuller on September 08, 2011, 05:13:22 PM
That's insane.  Taliban was already at "dishonorable scum" level in 2001 even before 9/11, and there is no conceivable way they would've escaped heavy retribution after such an act of war. 

Invasion of Afghanistan wasn't prompted by Bush or Republicans; it was pretty much a foregone conclusion on 9/12 that we'd be there, it was just a matter of figuring out the sequence of events that would culminate in that.

The Taliban didn't commit any act of war.  That's why Bush gave them the option of surrendering OBL instead of invading right away.

DGuller

But they harbored and supported those that did, a fact that wasn't lost on anyone.  Anything short of unconditional surrender to our demands would've been insufficient from them, since America was out for blood.