Why did Allies go easy on Nazi war criminals?

Started by DGuller, August 31, 2011, 12:30:42 PM

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grumbler

Quote from: Valmy on August 31, 2011, 03:05:49 PM
So I take it the guy who took Singapore was first on the chopping block.
Second.  Homma, who defeated MacArthur, was first.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Habsburg

Quote from: Valmy on August 31, 2011, 03:02:56 PM
Quote from: Habsburg on August 31, 2011, 02:58:23 PM
You haff naught seen da film!??!  :huh:

Nein :(

Let's just say Saint Winslet's Oscar winning "Noh! Noh! was "borrowed" from Miss Garland.

Neil

1.  They didn't really do anything wrong.

2.  Their expertise was needed to design the plans to defeat the Russians.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

Razgovory

Quote from: Neil on August 31, 2011, 06:38:51 PM

2.  Their expertise was needed to design the plans to defeat the Russians.

They didn't do a very good job the first time.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Neil

Quote from: Razgovory on August 31, 2011, 06:51:42 PM
Quote from: Neil on August 31, 2011, 06:38:51 PM

2.  Their expertise was needed to design the plans to defeat the Russians.

They didn't do a very good job the first time.
They lacked the resources.  There was also a view amongst many important Allied leaders (and fostered by German leaders) that Hitler's presence at the top had hobbled them.  They also had experience and information regarding Russian warmaking, something that the Western Allies did not.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

Razgovory

I remember reading the CIA found them completely useless. And the Bundeswehr was not that good of a force.  At least by 1962, when NATO rated the Germans the lowest possible standard after the Fallex 62 maneuvers.  We would have done better using Poles, who actually did defeat the Soviets in a war.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Caliga

Quote from: Neil on August 31, 2011, 07:07:30 PM
There was also a view amongst many important Allied leaders (and fostered by German leaders) that Hitler's presence at the top had hobbled them.
Is this merely a 'view'?  I actually thought it was universally accepted as truth that Hitler was atrocious at grand strategy.
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Admiral Yi

Quote from: Razgovory on August 31, 2011, 07:17:30 PM
I remember reading the CIA found them completely useless. And the Bundeswehr was not that good of a force.  At least by 1962, when NATO rated the Germans the lowest possible standard after the Fallex 62 maneuvers.  We would have done better using Poles, who actually did defeat the Soviets in a war.

Worse than the Belgians and the Dutch?? Every WP-NATO game I've ever played rated the Krauts as very good.

Except their ridiculous Starfighters.

Razgovory

Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 31, 2011, 07:22:04 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 31, 2011, 07:17:30 PM
I remember reading the CIA found them completely useless. And the Bundeswehr was not that good of a force.  At least by 1962, when NATO rated the Germans the lowest possible standard after the Fallex 62 maneuvers.  We would have done better using Poles, who actually did defeat the Soviets in a war.

Worse than the Belgians and the Dutch?? Every WP-NATO game I've ever played rated the Krauts as very good.

Except their ridiculous Starfighters.

It's possible that war games are not the best way to learn about military capabilities of armies.  Also, most WP-NATO games take place in the 1980's.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Neil

Quote from: Razgovory on August 31, 2011, 07:17:30 PM
I remember reading the CIA found them completely useless.
Hard to say.  After all, the CIA wasn't especially useful itself.  NASA, on the other hand, found them to be useful.
QuoteAnd the Bundeswehr was not that good of a force.  At least by 1962, when NATO rated the Germans the lowest possible standard after the Fallex 62 maneuvers.
Not everyone in the Bundeswehr was a Nazi, you filthy racist.
QuoteWe would have done better using Poles, who actually did defeat the Soviets in a war.
Unfortunately they were in short supply, since Poland was in the hands of the Russians, who murdered anyone worth two shits.  Besides, Poland's most recent war against the Russians had been pretty disastrous, and the heroes of the early 20s were all dead.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.


11B4V

Quote from: Razgovory on August 31, 2011, 06:51:42 PM
Quote from: Neil on August 31, 2011, 06:38:51 PM

2.  Their expertise was needed to design the plans to defeat the Russians.

They didn't do a very good job the first time.

Maybe not, but they gave it good go.... :bowler: :lmfao:
"there's a long tradition of insulting people we disagree with here, and I'll be damned if I listen to your entreaties otherwise."-OVB

"Obviously not a Berkut-commanded armored column.  They're not all brewing."- CdM

"We've reached one of our phase lines after the firefight and it smells bad—meaning it's a little bit suspicious... Could be an amb—".

Razgovory

You channeling Slargos now Neil?  English is his second language, you have no such excuses.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Neil

Quote from: Razgovory on August 31, 2011, 07:54:32 PM
You channeling Slargos now Neil?  English is his second language, you have no such excuses.
I'll accept that as your surrender.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

Razgovory

Quote from: Neil on August 31, 2011, 07:58:41 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 31, 2011, 07:54:32 PM
You channeling Slargos now Neil?  English is his second language, you have no such excuses.
I'll accept that as your surrender.

Is there anything I would say that you wouldn't accept as a surrender?
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017