Canada to firmly re-assess its status as a British colony

[Neil]

You over emphasize the value of 'oil sands' money.  One could just as easily contend that French Canada, because it was at some point more populous than any other territories attached to British North America, payed to develop what has become since the western provinces.  Then this would devolve into a lawyer/accountant debate (as if it never do so...) about who payed more or less and consequently whose rights have more weight than those of others.

I am not interested in a balance sheet debate.

Through political sponsorship and immigration English Canada has become more populous than Quebec.  Naturally the dominant paradigm here has shifted according to the numbers.

There's a lot of money in Ontario too, even if they've chosen to waste it.  Besides, Ontario has had a larger population than Quebec at least since Confederation, and before that it was Britain who was paying the way.  If Quebec was larger prior to Confederation it was irrelevant, because the people of Quebec were property of the British crown.

[Valmy]

Oddly enough, to those of us without a dog in the fight, it is the consensus that the exaggeration of "oppression" and whiny bruised egos is on the part of the Francophones. Most of the Anglophiles don't really seem to care until some bruised ego starts demanding half a million because his stewardess doesn't know how to say "7-Up" in French.

Do you hang out with Canadians on a regular basis?  How do you know they don't much care?  How do you know Grallon represents the general attitude of the Francophones?  Grey Fox doesn't seem to give a shit.

Or I guess you might, you live up there.

[Zoupa]

Berkut likes to troll on familiar grounds. There's rarely any need to take him seriously. 

[Berkut]

Oddly enough, to those of us without a dog in the fight, it is the consensus that the exaggeration of "oppression" and whiny bruised egos is on the part of the Francophones. Most of the Anglophiles don't really seem to care until some bruised ego starts demanding half a million because his stewardess doesn't know how to say "7-Up" in French.

Do you hang out with Canadians on a regular basis? 

Yes.

How do you know they don't much care?

Because they say things like "I don't much care", and laugh at people whining about 7-Up.

How do you know Grallon represents the general attitude of the Francophones?

How do you know that I know that Grallon...wait, what were we talking about?

Grey Fox doesn't seem to give a shit.

Not all Francophones are whiny bitches, news at 11.

Or I guess you might, you live up there.

You don't need to "live up there" to hear the opinions of Canuckles.

[Berkut]

Berkut likes to troll on familiar grounds. There's rarely any need to take him seriously. 

Pot, meet kettle.

[Barrister]

I am not interested in a balance sheet debate.

Because you know you would lose such a debate. 

The problem for separatists is they have a reasonably compelling historic / emotional case to be made for separatism.  But economically they have nothing.  There is no reasonably basis to believe that an independent Quebec would be anything but worse off once it loses equalization / renegotiates NAFTA / loses control over the loonie.

In fact Quebec has never been a net contributor to equalization since the entire concept was invented.  It's not surprising that you just want to waive your hands and ignore these facts.

[grumbler]

I am not interested in a balance sheet debate.

Because you know you would lose such a debate. 

Then again, he would lose any kind of debate. Intellectual intercourse isn't gral's strong suit! 

[Valmy]

Yes.

Cool.

Because they say things like "I don't much care", and laugh at people whining about 7-Up.

Yeah we have frivolous lawsuits in our country all the time.  But I am getting a little tired of talking about this.  THe guy is an activist who sues for these sorts of things all the time.  One activist is every french speaking person in Canada?

How do you know that I know that Grallon...wait, what were we talking about?

Because it looks like you are taking Grallon's post to back up your theory that Francophones = Whiners.

Not all Francophones are whiny bitches, news at 11.

Alright then.  So when you said 'Francophones are like this but the Anglophones are like this' what you meant was...what?

Surely you do not mean Anglophones never whine, never have victim conplexes, never have frivolous lawsuits or annoying politicial activists...because we are like superior or something...

You don't need to "live up there" to hear the opinions of Canuckles.

Yeah...I don't know if Languish is a good barometer for what the general population of a group feel.  I just presumed you were not basing all of this on what people on Languish say.

[Valmy]

The problem for separatists is they have a reasonably compelling historic / emotional case to be made for separatism.

But the extent that is compelling seems to be lessening over time yes?  Grallon seems pretty sure now it will never happen.

[Grallon]

...

In fact Quebec has never been a net contributor to equalization since the entire concept was invented.  It's not surprising that you just want to waive your hands and ignore these facts.

There are reasons to become independant other than getting wealthier.  And one has to be willing to make sacrifices in order to reach one's goals.  Besides Quebecers could use some hardship... they've become far too complacent.





G.

[Viking]

...

In fact Quebec has never been a net contributor to equalization since the entire concept was invented.  It's not surprising that you just want to waive your hands and ignore these facts.

There are reasons to become independant other than getting wealthier.  And one has to be willing to make sacrifices in order to reach one's goals.  Besides Quebecers could use some hardship... they've become far too complacent.





G.

mixing up means and ends again?

[Razgovory]

Yeah...I don't know if Languish is a good barometer for what the general population of a group feel.  I just presumed you were not basing all of this on what people on Languish say.

I think Berkut lives in upstate New York.  Running into Canadians probably isn't that rare up there.

[Razgovory]

...

In fact Quebec has never been a net contributor to equalization since the entire concept was invented.  It's not surprising that you just want to waive your hands and ignore these facts.

There are reasons to become independant other than getting wealthier.  And one has to be willing to make sacrifices in order to reach one's goals.  Besides Quebecers could use some hardship... they've become far too complacent.





G.

Is anyone actually trying to prevent you from leaving?  I mean besides the people of Quebec.  The situation seems similar to that of Ireland, who's founders knew that they would suffer economically from leaving Britain, they did so willingly though, and Ireland struggled economically for decades.  Of Course their grievances were a bit more concrete and things like the famine was still in living memory.

[crazy canuck]

Is anyone actually trying to prevent you from leaving?

IIRC in each of the referendum votes the Separatist complaint is that the Federalist side used money and support from outside Quebec. So I think the answer, at least from the Separatist side, is yes.

[viper37]

Besides Quebecers could use some hardship... they've become far too complacent.

G.

it's the Facal theory.  But I no longer subscribe to this idea.  I think the left has way too much power over the political action, and we need to restore order&economy before moving forward.  Kinda like building the foundation before mounting the walls on your house.

@CC:
Federal over-spending was documented.  And there's the whole sponsorship scandal thing, wich you seem to have forgotten.
It would have been more cost-efficient for you guys to let Quebec go in 1995, instead of trying everything to discourage this idea.