Canada to firmly re-assess its status as a British colony

[Malthus]

Insider tip: beware the requirement to make 'warts and all' disclosure of the case against you at first instance. Very dangerous if the court thinks you didn't do it openly enough ... the Mareva could be discharged at the inter parties hearing & you get called on your undertaking in damages even if it is proved that the other side is in fact a pack of fraudulent scumbags (as is so often the case ...)

Yeah, I have brought plenty of Ex Parte applications so the warts and all is nothing new.  The tricky part I am finding is being able to satisfactorily identify where the information is located (ie the location of the drives where the info is stored).  The challenges of the digital age.

Sure you aren't thinking of an anton piller order?

[crazy canuck]

Difference with a Mareva is the financial stakes. A Mareva freezes the other guy's assets based on an ex parte application. You have to give an undertaking in damages to the court that you agree to pay *all* the other guy's damages resulting from that freezing, if the Mareva was improperly obtained. Being an undertaking to the court, failure to pay is contempt. If you don't present the weaknesses of your case, the Mareva is improperly obtained ...

The criminal law equivalent would be if a cop, seeking a warrant, had to promise that the guy being searched gets to rummage through the cop's own apartment and take whatever he fancied if the warrant was improperly obtained. 

Exactly.  Its is the same distinction with an Ex Parte injunction application (very similiar to a Mareva but the Mareva generally will have wider implications).

[crazy canuck]

Insider tip: beware the requirement to make 'warts and all' disclosure of the case against you at first instance. Very dangerous if the court thinks you didn't do it openly enough ... the Mareva could be discharged at the inter parties hearing & you get called on your undertaking in damages even if it is proved that the other side is in fact a pack of fraudulent scumbags (as is so often the case ...)

Yeah, I have brought plenty of Ex Parte applications so the warts and all is nothing new.  The tricky part I am finding is being able to satisfactorily identify where the information is located (ie the location of the drives where the info is stored).  The challenges of the digital age.

Sure you aren't thinking of an anton piller order?

Yes, as part of the application.

There is a fair risk that both the assets and evidence will disappear.

[Barrister]

Hands up, who has made a Mareva injunction? 

Drafting one as we speak....

Never had the chance to bring one yet though.

Insider tip: beware the requirement to make 'warts and all' disclosure of the case against you at first instance. Very dangerous if the court thinks you didn't do it openly enough ... the Mareva could be discharged at the inter parties hearing & you get called on your undertaking in damages even if it is proved that the other side is in fact a pack of fraudulent scumbags (as is so often the case ...)

My civil experience is pretty limited so I certainly never filed for a prerogative writ, but the 'full and frank' disclosure is also a requirement on an Information to Obtain for a search warrant, and is once of the most common forms of attacking a warrant.

Difference with a Mareva is the financial stakes. A Mareva freezes the other guy's assets based on an ex parte application. You have to give an undertaking in damages to the court that you agree to pay *all* the other guy's damages resulting from that freezing, if the Mareva was improperly obtained. Being an undertaking to the court, failure to pay is contempt. If you don't present the weaknesses of your case, the Mareva is improperly obtained ...

The criminal law equivalent would be if a cop, seeking a warrant, had to promise that the guy being searched gets to rummage through the cop's own apartment and take whatever he fancied if the warrant was improperly obtained. 

There's a whole body of caselaw on what happens if your ITO doesn't disclose all relevant informatin, but the end result can be that your entire case is thrown out...

[Malthus]

Insider tip: beware the requirement to make 'warts and all' disclosure of the case against you at first instance. Very dangerous if the court thinks you didn't do it openly enough ... the Mareva could be discharged at the inter parties hearing & you get called on your undertaking in damages even if it is proved that the other side is in fact a pack of fraudulent scumbags (as is so often the case ...)

Yeah, I have brought plenty of Ex Parte applications so the warts and all is nothing new.  The tricky part I am finding is being able to satisfactorily identify where the information is located (ie the location of the drives where the info is stored).  The challenges of the digital age.

Sure you aren't thinking of an anton piller order?

Yes, as part of the application.

There is a fair risk that both the assets and evidence will disappear.

Oh, the joys of acting against fraudulent scumbags. You get to explore areas of the law rarely visited by ordinary mortals. 

[crazy canuck]

There's a whole body of caselaw on what happens if your ITO doesn't disclose all relevant informatin, but the end result can be that your entire case is thrown out...

But that is the full extent of your problem.  With a Mareva or any other Ex Parte application which interferes with a going concern there can be significant damages awarded.

[crazy canuck]

Oh, the joys of acting against fraudulent scumbags. You get to explore areas of the law rarely visited by ordinary mortals. 

[Malthus]

There's a whole body of caselaw on what happens if your ITO doesn't disclose all relevant informatin, but the end result can be that your entire case is thrown out...

That's pretty bad ... but it is even worse when the fraudsters legally collect big bucks from your perfectly innocent victim-of-fraud client for interfence with their fraud business because you screwed up the injunction application. 

[Duque de Bragança]

How can you fail to order a 7Up in French anyway?  I mean, I don't speak French, but unless you were improperly translating the product name (JE VEUX UNE SEPT JUSQU'A) I don't even see the confusion.

Sounds great. I'll try this one.

[Valmy]

Wow you lawyers can make any thread boring.

[crazy canuck]

Wow you lawyers can make any thread boring.

Go find your own thread.

[HVC]

you took it over . can you get injunction from someone posting topic in a thread?

[Malthus]

Wow you lawyers can make any thread boring.

Hey, I could write a novel about some of my old war stories - and sometimes I think I should.

After all, I've had clients sued by Martians, and others by Jesus Christ, the Son of Man. The former was a nutcase (or perhaps a Martian), but the latter was a quite serious matter about real money ...

[HVC]

Wow you lawyers can make any thread boring.

Hey, I could write a novel about some of my old war stories - and sometimes I think I should.

After all, I've had clients sued by Martians, and others by Jesus Christ, the Son of Man. The former was a nutcase (or perhaps a Martian), but the latter was a quite serious matter about real money ...

how does it even get to that point? can you serve someone papers without going through court first?

*edit* not actual court proceedings, but through a judge or something.

[crazy canuck]

Wow you lawyers can make any thread boring.

Hey, I could write a novel about some of my old war stories - and sometimes I think I should.

After all, I've had clients sued by Martians, and others by Jesus Christ, the Son of Man. The former was a nutcase (or perhaps a Martian), but the latter was a quite serious matter about real money ...

I had a client sued for conducting brain washing experiments on the plaintiff, implanting him with electrodes to monitor him and then sending him telepathic messages through the said electrodes.  My favourite part was his claim for damages was a Red Lambrogini, a Yellow Range Rover and $2,000,000,000,000.

I proposed to my client that I defend for 1% of the claim and just one of the vehicles.  I even said I would not be particular about the colour.  But that was not acceptable to them and I had to resort to my usual hourly billing.