Hitchens preaches to the choir

[Slargos]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwuUKlArgps

He comes off like a fucking petulant child.

"Well I didn't vote for 'im."

[Razgovory]

As a communist, I would think he would already have an understanding of compulsory love and fear from an establishment figure.

[Darth Wagtaros]

Yes.  He is a tool.  Part of being a Euro.

[Ideologue]

I liked it.

[Razgovory]

I liked it.

Also a tool.

[Ideologue]

I liked it.

Also a tool.

Does that mean I get European citizenship?

[Razgovory]

I liked it.

Also a tool.

Does that mean I get European citizenship?

You'll get a number.  And a shovel.  And a free bed in Siberia.

[Ideologue]

Oh, Hitchslap.  I get it.

Russians aren't Europeans really, Raz.

[Berkut]

Thousands of preachers get up every week and preach their version of the gospel, koran, whatever.

Why is it so odious when a non-believer gets up and does a little preaching?

I mean, most of what he says is absolutely correct. The idea that human (or demi-human) sacrifice as a means of salvation is in fact morally pretty tough to justify...isn't it?

[Razgovory]

He's ranting about a religious practice that hasn't taken place for two thousand years.  That seems a bit silly.  But he's one of your "tribe", isn't he Berkut?  Purple Dragxi etc.

[Barrister]

Thousands of preachers get up every week and preach their version of the gospel, koran, whatever.

Why is it so odious when a non-believer gets up and does a little preaching?

I mean, most of what he says is absolutely correct. The idea that human (or demi-human) sacrifice as a means of salvation is in fact morally pretty tough to justify...isn't it?

It's not human sacrifice - it's self-sacrifice.  You know, the same kind of sacrifice you make for your kids, or your parents make for you.

Look - believe in Christianity or not - I don't care. (well I care somewhat, but it's a free country).  But as an attack this one is pretty lame.

[Berkut]

Thousands of preachers get up every week and preach their version of the gospel, koran, whatever.

Why is it so odious when a non-believer gets up and does a little preaching?

I mean, most of what he says is absolutely correct. The idea that human (or demi-human) sacrifice as a means of salvation is in fact morally pretty tough to justify...isn't it?

It's not human sacrifice - it's self-sacrifice.  You know, the same kind of sacrifice you make for your kids, or your parents make for you.

Look - believe in Christianity or not - I don't care. (well I care somewhat, but it's a free country).  But as an attack this one is pretty lame.

I cannot expunge the sins of my children via sacrifice. Their moral obligation for their actions is not effected in any way by anything I do.

If my kid murders someone, there is nothing *I* can do to take away their guilt. There is no sacrifice, of self or otherwise, I can make that can expunge their guilt. The idea that someone killing themselves in order to atone for others sin is in fact morally reprehensible by an objective standard of morality.

I might agree that as an attack on the concept of god dying so he can forgive us of sins we never actually committed ourselves it is pretty weak - but only because the entire idea is so ludicrous that it does seem a little odd to pick on that one aspect of worth of attention.

[Barrister]

The idea that someone killing themselves in order to atone for others sin is in fact morally reprehensible by an objective standard of morality.

You're going to have to explain that one to me, because I do not follow at all how it is "morally reprehensible by an objective standard of morality".

and please - this is a serious question, and I will refrain from ad homs and the like.  I'm sure you can come up with some 'clever' quip to answer my question, but I am not interested in scoring points.  I would appreciate a serious answer, if you care to give one.

[Razgovory]

Thousands of preachers get up every week and preach their version of the gospel, koran, whatever.

Why is it so odious when a non-believer gets up and does a little preaching?

I mean, most of what he says is absolutely correct. The idea that human (or demi-human) sacrifice as a means of salvation is in fact morally pretty tough to justify...isn't it?

It's not human sacrifice - it's self-sacrifice.  You know, the same kind of sacrifice you make for your kids, or your parents make for you.

Look - believe in Christianity or not - I don't care. (well I care somewhat, but it's a free country).  But as an attack this one is pretty lame.

I cannot expunge the sins of my children via sacrifice. Their moral obligation for their actions is not effected in any way by anything I do.

If my kid murders someone, there is nothing *I* can do to take away their guilt. There is no sacrifice, of self or otherwise, I can make that can expunge their guilt. The idea that someone killing themselves in order to atone for others sin is in fact morally reprehensible by an objective standard of morality.

I might agree that as an attack on the concept of god dying so he can forgive us of sins we never actually committed ourselves it is pretty weak - but only because the entire idea is so ludicrous that it does seem a little odd to pick on that one aspect of worth of attention.

You could plea guilty for the murder.  Claim you did it.  While it may not assuage guilt in the moral sense you could prevent your child from being punished.

[Berkut]

The idea that someone killing themselves in order to atone for others sin is in fact morally reprehensible by an objective standard of morality.

You're going to have to explain that one to me, because I do not follow at all how it is "morally reprehensible by an objective standard of morality".

and please - this is a serious question, and I will refrain from ad homs and the like.  I'm sure you can come up with some 'clever' quip to answer my question, but I am not interested in scoring points.  I would appreciate a serious answer, if you care to give one.

The basic story of Christ is that it was *necessary* for him to be tortured and murdered in order to atone for the sins of humanity (and even the idea of shared guilt for things one has not done is morally reprehensible). I am not sure how I can explain that a moral system that requires human sacrifice (even if it is fake human sacrifice since Christ was not actually human, and didn't actually die) to forgive the sins of others is not moral beyond the obvious.