Hitchens preaches to the choir

[Valmy]

It might just be because I live in Texas but I have no idea what you guys are talking about.

[Slargos]

I would agree that the whole crucifiction* thing is overdone and more than a bit simplistic and even silly, but that someone had to fake their own death to pull it off isn't really a moral issue.  In the story, Jesus had to die so that the gates of heaven got unlocked, as I understand it.  No one got autoforgiven as a result; what happened was that the level cap was lifted and people could level into heaven, if they had enough karma points to do so.

* not mis-spelled

While I have no idea to what extent your remark is a joke, this kind of "clever" witticism really makes you look like nothing but a gigantic jackass.

"Heh heh crucifiction *chortle* we atheists are so clever"

No. You're really not.

Sure, the guy who initially thought of it was clever, but repeating something clever doesn't make you clever by proxy. 

[grumbler]

Agreed.  If there is one problem in religious sphere, it's that atheist viewpoint gets crammed down our throats.

And  to the responses, as well.

[HVC]

All the mystery religions of around 100-50 BCE were a bit whacked.  One became a state religion of Roman empire and now we are still trying to figure out how somone who, according to Canon, was God, died, but stayed as God, somehow saved someone living 2000+ years later.

If you had not grown up with that as your faith BB, you have to admit, it would be a tough sell.

Given how christianity has spread, evidently not THAT tough a sell, even if some salespeople did grantedly resort to rather violent methods of preaching. 

well you were selling it to people who thought nomes lived in trees and stuff , so they were more receptive lol

[Ideologue]

However, it is certainly irritating to have the atheist viewpoint pushed so hard in entertainment and especially so in a more or less completely secular country where actually saying out right "I believe in God" is almost as fruitful as declaring your love of carnal intimacy with babies.

Maybe it plays better for me here in the States, since I've been confronted with actual surprise and occasional prejudice for being an atheist.  People tend to look at you funny, since the atheist content if South Carolina is probably less than 1%.  I don't usually bring it up, but if someone wants to talk about Christianity, I'm not going to sit there and lie to them.

And Osiris is pretty cool.  I like how he (and Isis and Set) combine a lot of elements that in Biblical myths get separated, specifically Adam and Eve and more obviously Cain and Abel.

Also, one of the grosser sex scenes in mythology.  Incest?  Check.  Necrophilia?  Damn straight.  The resulting baby has a bird's head?  Okay, that might be symbolic.

[Slargos]

However, it is certainly irritating to have the atheist viewpoint pushed so hard in entertainment and especially so in a more or less completely secular country where actually saying out right "I believe in God" is almost as fruitful as declaring your love of carnal intimacy with babies.

Maybe it plays better for me here in the States, since I've been confronted with actual surprise and occasional prejudice for being an atheist.  People tend to look at you funny, since the atheist content if South Carolina is probably less than 1%. I don't usually bring it up, but if someone wants to talk about Christianity, I'm not going to sit there and lie to them.

Probably. I think a lot of the confusion in a lot of threads here stems from the fact that it's not just a body of water separating Americans from Europeans in general and Scandinavians in particular.

But in fact, I actually follow the same philosophy you do, so we certainly have common ground as well. 

[Razgovory]

However, it is certainly irritating to have the atheist viewpoint pushed so hard in entertainment and especially so in a more or less completely secular country where actually saying out right "I believe in God" is almost as fruitful as declaring your love of carnal intimacy with babies.

Maybe it plays better for me here in the States, since I've been confronted with actual surprise and occasional prejudice for being an atheist.  People tend to look at you funny, since the atheist content if South Carolina is probably less than 1%.  I don't usually bring it up, but if someone wants to talk about Christianity, I'm not going to sit there and lie to them.

And Osiris is pretty cool.  I like how he (and Isis and Set) combine a lot of elements that in Biblical myths get separated, specifically Adam and Eve and more obviously Cain and Abel.

Also, one of the grosser sex scenes in mythology.  Incest?  Check.  Necrophilia?  Damn straight.  The resulting baby has a bird's head?  Okay, that might be symbolic.

I think you would a stronger case arguing the similarities between of Dumuzid and Enkimudu and Cain and Abel rather then from Egyptian religion.  Both involve an effort to appease a god by both a shepherd and a farmer and both end with the deity favoring the shepherd.  Though how exactly it ends is unknown.  We do know that Dumuzid the Shepard did not die in that story.  He is dragged to the underworld in another story failing to be sufficiently unhappy when his wife (the deity who was appeased) died.  Dumzid is referred to in the bible though, where he know as Tammuz.  I think one of he prophets complain that women still mourn him as evidence  of polytheism still exiting amongst the Jews of that time.  It's also good evidence that the Hebrews not only knew of the story but it was once part of their religion.

[derspiess]

Why is it so odious when a non-believer gets up and does a little preaching?

Because in certain circles it happens way too damned often.

Agreed.  If there is one problem in religious sphere, it's that atheist viewpoint gets crammed down our throats.

[Ideologue]

Fair enough--I don't think a direct connection is possible to establish, but in broad strokes I can see some similarities.

[Iormlund]

Atheist evangelism was one of those culture shocks for me. I'd never heard of anything similar over here. People simply ignore religion altogether.
It might be just a consequence of the puzzling importance Americans still give to religion, more than anything else.

[crazy canuck]

All the mystery religions of around 100-50 BCE were a bit whacked.  One became a state religion of Roman empire and now we are still trying to figure out how somone who, according to Canon, was God, died, but stayed as God, somehow saved someone living 2000+ years later.

If you had not grown up with that as your faith BB, you have to admit, it would be a tough sell.

Given how christianity has spread, evidently not THAT tough a sell, even if some salespeople did grantedly resort to rather violent methods of preaching. 

The reasons it spread are are different through the ages.  For example the reason the Roman Empire adopted it as its state religion is an interesting study.  From that point on the only real question was what form of Christianity would prevail not whether Christianity itself would be dominant in Europe.

There is no great mystery as to how Christianity spread after that - as you said the sales methods were less than moral...

[Slargos]

All the mystery religions of around 100-50 BCE were a bit whacked.  One became a state religion of Roman empire and now we are still trying to figure out how somone who, according to Canon, was God, died, but stayed as God, somehow saved someone living 2000+ years later.

If you had not grown up with that as your faith BB, you have to admit, it would be a tough sell.

Given how christianity has spread, evidently not THAT tough a sell, even if some salespeople did grantedly resort to rather violent methods of preaching. 

The reasons it spread are are different through the ages.  For example the reason the Roman Empire adopted it as its state religion is an interesting study.  From that point on the only real question was what form of Christianity would prevail not whether Christianity itself would be dominant in Europe.

There is no great mystery as to how Christianity spread after that - as you said the sales methods were less than moral...

It would indeed seem like most great leaps forward for christianity have been top-down efforts rather than grass roots first. But still.

Morality is in the eye of the surviving beholder.

[DontSayBanana]

Huh.  More arguments for my position - my usual one (which I'm not sure if I've said on here before; I'm sorry if I have) is the concept of original sin.  Omnipotent, omniscient God makes man.  Man promptly fucks it up because man is fallible.  Either God is a liar and not omniscient, or else God creates man to take a fall and is a sadist.  Thing is, worship of either kind of entity seems at least vaguely immoral.

[Malthus]

Huh.  More arguments for my position - my usual one (which I'm not sure if I've said on here before; I'm sorry if I have) is the concept of original sin.  Omnipotent, omniscient God makes man.  Man promptly fucks it up because man is fallible.  Either God is a liar and not omniscient, or else God creates man to take a fall and is a sadist.  Thing is, worship of either kind of entity seems at least vaguely immoral.

The Eden story is wierder than that.

God isn't angry at Adam for screwing up - the gods (plural, in that story and only in that story) are frightened that Adam, and hence humans, may become 'like them', and threaten their power. It is the god's fear that makes them turf Adam & Eve out of the guarden.

Seriously, check it out. 

[Ideologue]

Huh.  More arguments for my position - my usual one (which I'm not sure if I've said on here before; I'm sorry if I have) is the concept of original sin.  Omnipotent, omniscient God makes man.  Man promptly fucks it up because man is fallible.  Either God is a liar and not omniscient, or else God creates man to take a fall and is a sadist.  Thing is, worship of either kind of entity seems at least vaguely immoral.

The Eden story is wierder than that.

God isn't angry at Adam for screwing up - the gods (plural, in that story and only in that story) are frightened that Adam, and hence humans, may become 'like them', and threaten their power. It is the god's fear that makes them turf Adam & Eve out of the guarden.

Seriously, check it out. 

And this is why Genesis/B'reisheet is one of the most damaging pieces of literature ever written.  (It's the first place you hear about the brit milah too, which doesn't help. )

The only modern contender is Frankenstein: The Modern Prometheus.