Do You Support John Brown's Revolutionary Violence

[Syt]

Don't know what John Brown did.

His body lies smoldering in his grave. And he was portrayed by Johnny Cash in North & South. The tv show, not the Infogrames game.

[jimmy olsen]

Don't know what John Brown did.

His body lies smoldering in his grave. And he was portrayed by Johnny Cash in North & South. The tv show, not the Infogrames game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSSn3NddwFQ

[Martinus]

I made a bunch of posts, but then noted that a number of people made the same points already so deleted them. Agree with Ide and Mihali. Also agree with OvB about his characterization of slavery as a crime against natural law and thus trumping any formal laws any regime may put in place.

[The Brain]

Don't know what John Brown did.

His body lies smoldering in his grave. And he was portrayed by Johnny Cash in North & South. The tv show, not the Infogrames game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSSn3NddwFQ

Nice eagle.

[The Brain]

I made a bunch of posts, but then noted that a number of people made the same points already so deleted them. Agree with Ide and Mihali. Also agree with OvB about his characterization of slavery as a crime against natural law and thus trumping any formal laws any regime may put in place.

Are you sure you want to support the idea of natural law? As a gay man?

[The Brain]

Didn't John Brown have a vote btw? Drawn to the logical extreme if you are dictator in a country with unjust laws you should start killing people instead of changing the laws. Interesting idea.

[Ideologue]

Didn't John Brown have a vote btw? Drawn to the logical extreme if you are dictator in a country with unjust laws you should start killing people instead of changing the laws. Interesting idea.

Stalin was only trying to make his voice heard.

[Richard Hakluyt]

Actually, I'd be interested in hearing the people who condemn Brown try to justify the American Revolution.

The American revolutionaries were correct that their ancient liberties were being infringed, at which point it becomes acceptable to protect those liberties. It was the Crown that was engaged in revolutionary violence. The situation escalated from there.

Oh, and John Brown was wrong to go on his murderous rampage.

[dps]

Actually, I'd be interested in hearing the people who condemn Brown try to justify the American Revolution.

Hmm.  I must have missed history class the day the teacher talked about the times that Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson went through small towns in Britian murdering civilians.

[Ideologue]

Actually, I'd be interested in hearing the people who condemn Brown try to justify the American Revolution.

Hmm.  I must have missed history class the day the teacher talked about the times that Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson went through small towns in Britian murdering civilians.

The point is not the targeting of civilians, but rather whether the government (or governments, specifically those of Virginia and other southern states) could be legitimately targeted.

We can argue tactics all night long.  Like OvB, I believe Brown's plan, such as it was, was fundamentally flawed.  It was essentially Underpants Gnome warfare.

And some people don't believe in collective responsibility, which is a reasonable conclusion, although I don't share it.  On the other hand, targeting slaveowners themselves and armed partisans is hardly "collective," is it?  And even then, you cannot realistically state that Virginian civilians would have remained noncombatant in the face of slave uprising.

[Martinus]

I made a bunch of posts, but then noted that a number of people made the same points already so deleted them. Agree with Ide and Mihali. Also agree with OvB about his characterization of slavery as a crime against natural law and thus trumping any formal laws any regime may put in place.

Are you sure you want to support the idea of natural law? As a gay man?

It's one of these cases where I believe the expression means something else than everyone else.

But seriously, the concept of natural law (ius gentium) is an old one and only recently has been used to attack gays. It also does not mean "law of nature".

[Martinus]

Didn't John Brown have a vote btw? Drawn to the logical extreme if you are dictator in a country with unjust laws you should start killing people instead of changing the laws. Interesting idea.

Stalin was only trying to make his voice heard.

Stalin's Russia was a one man-one vote democracy. Stalin was the man and and he had the vote.*

*Shamelessly stolen from Terry Pratchett.

[Slargos]

No.

While slavery is an abomination, the methods he used were unacceptable.

[Martinus]

No.

While slavery is an abomination, the methods he used were unacceptable.

If use of violence is not allowed in defense of life and freedom of a human being, then when is it allowed?

[Slargos]

No.

While slavery is an abomination, the methods he used were unacceptable.

If use of violence is not allowed in defense of life and freedom of a human being, then when is it allowed?

Oh, we're talking about white slavery?

Well that's an entirely different question.

Wish you would've said so to begin with.

Then, yes. Obviously.