Football (Soccer) Thread

[Sheilbh]

And in response to the football/covid questions Johnson doesn't want to pre-empt the governance review, but he knows that Tracey Crouch (the MP chairing the review) is very impressed with the German model.

Launch a Super League, accidentally lose a controlling stake in our company

[Duque de Bragança]

i mean he has a point. hard to argue that big money will skew the game when big money has always meant winning.

In Italy you need money *and* underhanded tactics (and Juventus is an expert in both parts), just ask Luciano Moggi. 

So is Inter, though they managed to shift most of the blame to Juventus. Calciopoli

Nah, Inter are legendary chokers. Definitely behind Juve and Milan in that area.

Silver medal back in the day at least, in Berlusconi times bronze, yes.

[Jacob]

I'll believe it when I see it, but it would be delicious.

[Sheilbh]

I'll believe it when I see it, but it would be delicious.

I know

And I'd love to see the prep docs for this and what risks they flagged. From the leak the Guardian got it warned there might be "some opposition" as there would be to any change which may have underestimated things.

I haven't seen British public opinion and press in this much of a unified, outraged indignation since the MP expenses scandal. I can't think of anything else that's had the Guardian to the Sun basically as one - plus open editorialising by broadcast news which isn't really allowed but is letting slide especially on Sky Sports News.

Edit: Also, obviously the protests are bad and break the rules - but I have found some of them very funny like the guy in Leeds with a saxophone playing Money Money Money when the Liverpool team coach arrived. And this sign at Chelsea tonight:

[alfred russel]

I realize this is a really long term threat to top European clubs, but...

The general set up of a couple wealthy and successful teams in leagues of shit teams is not maximizing revenue. The best players going against mid tier clubs is not must watch (in person or on television).

In the US, soccer is now probably approaching the levels of popularity of baseball (and has probably passed hockey by). MLS has a salary structure that doesn't make it competitive with european leagues, but the salaries the top baseball players get would be. You could end up with european players getting lured to the US while in their prime, and over time the US having the top domestic league. While the fans in the US lack the passion of europeans (by a long shot), it is a wealthier market overall, and has a bigger population than western europe.

We already have this dynamic in hockey: some of the top hockey players are in US cities that don't care about hockey, but the economics work out that they are the most lucrative markets.

[HVC]

has salary caps ever been a possibility in football in Europe?

[Sheilbh]

I realize this is a really long term threat to top European clubs, but...

The general set up of a couple wealthy and successful teams in leagues of shit teams is not maximizing revenue. The best players going against mid tier clubs is not must watch (in person or on television).

In the US, soccer is now probably approaching the levels of popularity of baseball (and has probably passed hockey by). MLS has a salary structure that doesn't make it competitive with european leagues, but the salaries the top baseball players get would be. You could end up with european players getting lured to the US while in their prime, and over time the US having the top domestic league. While the fans in the US lack the passion of europeans (by a long shot), it is a wealthier market overall, and has a bigger population than western europe.

We already have this dynamic in hockey: some of the top hockey players are in US cities that don't care about hockey, but the economics work out that they are the most lucrative markets.

Agreed - and at some point China too will catch up. I think they've changed from paying insane fees and wages to European players to trying to develop a stronger domestic league. But there was a sense that might be starting to happen when Shanghai bought Oscar from Chelsea for £60million when he was only 24. But China's changed strategy.

And I don't entirely oppose the idea of multi-nation leagues - I think they need to be part of an open competitive system and a bit of thinking. But, like Rory Smith in the NYT, I think the idea of an African super league makes a lot of sense, same for a Scandinavian and Benelux league. In the future a European league might make more sense too but as I say this seems to include the worst elements of both American and European sport - so there's no salary structure or real wage control or draft to create competition within a closed system, and there's no relegation or promotion so there's no competition within an open system. I think there's principled reasons to not like it, but I also think it's not an interesting sporting idea.

In the long term I think it's clear that, especially American owners, want to impose some form of wage control in some way. But we're nowhere near there yet.

[celedhring]

has salary caps ever been a possibility in football in Europe?

La Liga has salary caps, but not in the sense american sports do. The cap is based on your revenue, so richer clubs can pay higher wages. It's a mechanism to avoid clubs overspending.

[Barrister]

Yeah a truly European super-league could be quite interesting.  Throw in teams from Germany, France, the low countries, eastern europe, scandinavia - Russia even.

But this ESL isn't that.

[FunkMonk]

Chels are pulling out.

Victory. Victory at all costs

[Sheilbh]

has salary caps ever been a possibility in football in Europe?

La Liga has salary caps, but not in the sense american sports do. The cap is based on your revenue, so richer clubs can pay higher wages. It's a mechanism to avoid clubs overspending.

I think a maximum salary is illegal in Europe - used to exist in England back in the day. Jimmy Hill campaigned to get rid of it.

Yeah a truly European super-league could be quite interesting.  Throw in teams from Germany, France, the low countries, eastern europe, scandinavia - Russia even.

I mean that's not a million miles away from what the Champions League/Europea League is

Chels are pulling out.

Victory. Victory at all costs

Now smash them so this never happens again.

Also as you said earlier an issue with PSG, UEFA, FIFA and now Chelsea as the goodies - it's like the reverse of that Mitchell and Webb sketch

[FunkMonk]

I'm waiting patiently for Arsenal to announce they are pulling out but Stan is a huge POS so I suspect they will be the last English club to pull out.

[Sheilbh]

Man City also pulling out - the two last in, who need the money least.

I imagine all the other clubs will rush to pull out now - I suspect Agnelli and Perez will be the last holdouts but maybe not.

[FunkMonk]

Also as you said earlier an issue with PSG, UEFA, FIFA and now Chelsea as the goodies - it's like the reverse of that Mitchell and Webb sketch

They will never be good, just less bad than the rest   

[Sheilbh]

Petr Cech talking to the protesters:
https://twitter.com/phillipjames4/status/1384557485680480259?s=20

As this continues the cross from just sports to politics (see also Keir Starmer tweeting that this is great news but we need to keep going to change the game so fans are first). But that Cech video has real old regime collapsing vibes

Also apparently Chelsea players were very unhappy with this and especially the risk of being banned from internationals - and if nothing else Abramovich listens to the dressing room.