Football (Soccer) Thread

[Liep]

I have heard it proposed that the VAR referee gets 30 seconds and if he can't make a call in time the call on the field stands.

It would probably stop this from happening:

[celedhring]

I've always thought that stopping to check wether the forward's nose was 1 cm offside misrepresents the purpose of the rule.

[Josquius]

Yeah. I try not to get into the whole VAR debate because but this game feels like has been a little bit ridiculous.

And often the debate about VAR is actually really about the rules. People are really criticising whatever the rule is through the medium of VAR because x rule wasn't previously really enforced that harshly. Whereas that just seems like one where there's no need for the VAR to intervene from the refs decision

Yeah. The rules as written were for a game.
If strictly applied to the letter at all times then they sap out all the fun so they're meant to be applied a bit fluffily.
But when there's millions upon millions of pounds resting on decisions this original reason for the rules gets lost and the name of the game does become strictly applying them to the letter and wrecking the game.

VAR is fine. The problem is the rules are a bit too fluffy.

[Liep]

Also who decided it was the armpit of the attacker that counts?

[Sheilbh]

So weirdly I have less issue with offside because I think whatever happens there, there's going to be a physical point at which you breach the rule. And I get what Celed is saying but if you say you need x limb over the offside line or you have x cm before you're offside there's still a point where you go 1 cm over and it's a breach that will sometimes get caught by the linesman and sometimes not. I don't mind always catching that with VAR which can give a definitive factual answer, even if it is sometimes harsh.

What I find really weird is the number of times refs are being overruled on very strict, or subjective interpretations of other rules based on VAR and that, to me, defeats the purpose. With offside they can do maths and give an answer which may sometimes be unfair. But replacing a subjective on-pitch interpretation of the rules with an equally subjective off-pitch interpretation of the rules (with the benefit of multiple angles and slowmos) seems weird. It's just not been the "clear and obvious" errors which is what I thought they were aiming for. A lot of these calls feel like they could be exams in Ref School where you can reach multiple conclusions and I'm not sure that the off-pitch should have this precedence.

[Admiral Yi]

What does the letter of the law say?  Is it foot or furthest body part?  Seems to me foot would be the most objective and create fewer arguments.

[Sheilbh]

Any part of the body except for hands or arms.

This is partly why these "armpit" offsides are so annoying:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50935709

[Admiral Yi]

Dumb.

[Josquius]

I forsee VAR scientifically analysing the skeletal structure of players to determine whether the part of the shoulder over the line was part of the arm or body.

It seems the sensible thing to do to stop any ambiguity is to make it any body part at all.

[alfred russel]

Yanks! A query.

With Guardiola's time at City (maybe) coming to an end this season, and Pochettino getting fired from Spurs there's been a lot of talk in England about the time limit on managers.

Basically that after 4-5 years they stop having the same effect on a group of players, it runs out, things get stale and either you need to restructure the squad or replace the manager. A few of the old-school managers (Fergie especially) were defined by their ability to constantly refresh and restructure their squad so they never got tired of him and his management. But generally now few clubs would trust a manager to do that and it's cheaper to replace them than it is to restructure the team.

But it got me thinking. My impression is that isn't the case in NFL (and maybe other US sports) with, I assume, head coaches - is that right? Or am I wrong and there is the same thing? I just feel like there's lots of head coaches around who've been in place for like a decade and in England there's no-one left like that and, I think, a general perception that it won't happen again.

This is just a guess, but I'd say that the influx of really big money is what is driving that.  There's not only more pressure to win, but to win NOW! when the monetary stakes go up.  But in the long term, there is a good bit of value in stability, too, and eventually successful managers and coaches get to stick around until they leave more-or-less on their own terms.  I think that managerial/coaching stability is probably cyclical in the long term.

I think European soccer is a perfect storm and the sports aren't comparable.

American football requires a degree of coordination that the other sports don't have: there is a general consensus that players need time to adjust to the system and coaches time to implement it. Granted this is true to some degree in all sports, but I think American football is at an extreme end of the spectrum.

Basketball has a salary cap with max salaries that makes it critical to recruit top talent with something other than money. For that reason teams will especially value a coach with a positive reputation, and tend toward stability (no one wants to enter a chaotic situation).

[Josquius]

American football is pretty much akin to if football entirely consisted of set pieces right?
Far more the kind of thing that is drilled on the training field than open play.

[Admiral Yi]

American football is pretty much akin to if football entirely consisted of set pieces right?

Infinitely more complex, orchestrated, and interconnected.

[Duque de Bragança]

American football is pretty much akin to if football entirely consisted of set pieces right?

Infinitely more complex, orchestrated, and interconnected.

It's closer to Rugby league, with indeed an emphasis on tactics, and of course no free flow action as Association football should.

[Valmy]

American Football is a descendant of Rugby not Football. I mean notice the primary goal is to score a "touchdown" a term that makes no sense at all unless you know Rugby.

[Grey Fox]

Of course Soccer & Grid Iron are brothers.