Football (Soccer) Thread

[Sheilbh]

One thing I find slightly fascinating about this is the American influence - because it's clearly been huge on the owners in terms of seeing from American sports better ways of commercialising sport and maximising revenue (which - unlike in the US, players don't get a share of).

But it also strikes me that there's a shift in younger players which I think is because younger players are also exposed to American sports and the NBA is particularly popular. In my mind the NBA is the ultimate in athlete activism and we've seen a slight generational thing of Ibahimovic having a go at LeBron for his activism. But with younger players you have them commenting on issue beyond football in a way that is quite new and I think shaped by them watching American athletes (off the top of my head Marcus Rashford, Raheem Sterling, Patrick Bamford, Richarlison, James Maddison, Mesut Ozil). I wouldn't be surprised to see more player activism out of this and even a players' union starting to demand more of an input on big issues in the game. In European sports players are incredibly weak compared to the owners and clubs in comparison to the US.

As I say I think it was trying to bring in the bits that Europeans don't like about American sports (closed league) with all the worst bits of European sports where there'd be no player control mechanisms, no real cost control measures, no controls over what owners do or financial limits (e.g. I understand that there's strict debt limits in the NFL - there is nothing in European football which is why some of these clubs are so keen for this proposal).

[garbon]

I know we've already said it before but infuriating the crackdown on women wanting to feel safe while this nonsense gets a pass.

And now this:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/apr/24/law-firm-takes-up-case-of-nurse-fined-10000-for-1-pay-protest

The mind boggles.

[Admiral Yi]

From a longer Economist article about fodbol clubs performing above or below their talent.

Performace is ranked by prestige points awarded:

Champions League--10 points

Premier League--9 points

Europa League--5.5 points

FA Cup--4.5 points

League Cup (never even heard of this one)--2.5 points

Agree?  Disagree?  Don't care?

[Richard Hakluyt]

I know we've already said it before but infuriating the crackdown on women wanting to feel safe while this nonsense gets a pass.

And now this:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/apr/24/law-firm-takes-up-case-of-nurse-fined-10000-for-1-pay-protest

The mind boggles.

The public is funding her legal campaign to prove that her protest was not illegal https://www.crowdjustice.com/case/support-nhs-nurse-karen/

The old bill doesn't like taking on men but seems to like bullying women 

[celedhring]

From a longer Economist article about fodbol clubs performing above or below their talent.

Performace is ranked by prestige points awarded:

Champions League--10 points

Premier League--9 points

Europa League--5.5 points

FA Cup--4.5 points

League Cup (never even heard of this one)--2.5 points

Agree?  Disagree?  Don't care?

An English newspaper rating the PL as just 10% less prestigious than the Champions League 

I think that's all the commentary I need to provide.

[Josquius]

With the latter stages of the champions league it's fair to laugh. But the group stages?
I think even the lowest Premier league teams are better than Dynamo Riga.

This is one thing that is noticeable in the English vs Spanish league. It's competitive between the top teams of both but the lower la liga teams are second division in England at best.

[Tamas]

This is one thing that is noticeable in the English vs Spanish league. It's competitive between the top teams of both but the lower la liga teams are second division in England at best.

[Sheilbh]

What I think is true, and I think it's the PL's pitch - is it's not the best football but it is the most exciting/unpredictable: anyone can beat anyone on their day. But I think that's just because the Premier League has quite a lot of revenue sharing compared to La Liga or Serie A where the money is far more tilted towards the top teams. So in terms of TV money alone in England the champion earns about 1.5x what the bottom club earns, I think in the other European leagues it's between 2.5-3.5 more.

Obviously the PL also has a very big TV deal so there's a lot of money to distribute (I think the Spanish clubs and Juve - and maybe the Milan clubs - would leave their domestic leagues for a Super League, at the minute the PL is still the golden goose for English clubs) so I think the club that gets relegated in England gets more TV money than a club in the European places in Italy. But it means there's huge distortions in the lower leagues.

[HVC]

This is one thing that is noticeable in the English vs Spanish league. It's competitive between the top teams of both but the lower la liga teams are second division in England at best.

Proof that tyr's a brexiter at heart

[The Larch]

What lower table teams in the Premier League have that La Liga teams in the same situation lack is money, as even the team that places last in the Premier League gets more money than most Spanish teams. Besides that, a Sheffield Utd - Eibar is not really a match I'd enjoy watching. 

Edit: I did a quick check and if I'm not wrong the last team in the Premier gets more in TV money than the 4th placed team in Spain.

[Sheilbh]

What lower table teams in the Premier League have that La Liga teams in the same situation lack is money, as even the team that places last in the Premier League gets more money than most Spanish teams. Besides that, a Sheffield Utd - Eibar is not really a match I'd enjoy watching. 

Fair. Sometimes lower teams are doing something interesting - I've got a soft spot for Brighton and Southampton.

Although I don't understand quite what happened with Sheffield United this season v last season. And I was speaking to a friend in South Sudan about this and it is the genius of the Premier League marketing team - people in Juba know about the score of West Brom v West Ham

[celedhring]

The PL market is massively inflated though, English teams end up overpaying mediocrity since there's so much money to go around, and these players are difficult to move to other leagues once they have a PL-level contract. Furthermore, Brexit will make it harder to import low-tier, cheaper, foreign talent.

So, imho, there's not that much of a difference between English and Spanish bottom-feeders as their relative incomes might suggest. Sheffield Utd has a roster made up of a majority of very well paid mediocre British players, compared to Eibar's roster of low-paid mediocre Spanish players.

As Larchie points out, though, this is not a theory I'm particularly looking forward to test 

[celedhring]

That said, I'm old enough to have watched games of the Anglo-Italian cup, and that was one little cool tournament.

[Sheilbh]

The PL market is massively inflated though, English teams end up overpaying mediocrity since there's so much money to go around, and these players are difficult to move to other leagues once they have a PL-level contract.

Yeah this is fair - and can be disastrous if you get relegated. See the Sunderland documentary where they were trying to convince Jack Rodwell to accept a pay cut (I think he was still on £50k a week even though they were now in League 1 ).

So, imho, there's not that much of a difference between English and Spanish bottom-feeders as their relative incomes might suggest. Sheffield Utd has a roster made up of a majority of very well paid mediocre British players, compared to Eibar's roster of low-paid mediocre Spanish players.

Although Sheffield United haven't made many signings - that's broadly speaking the team they were promoted from the Championship with. This was one of the sources of tension between the manager and the board. But them (and Burnley) are a little bit of outliers. Other clubs around them are more likely to be made up of mediocre players from around the world

[The Larch]

It's actually quite a miracle that Eibar has managed to stay in La Liga for so long, it's a tiny team.