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[SPOILERS] A Dance With Dragons

Started by Viking, July 12, 2011, 03:50:12 PM

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LaCroix

#75
July 18, 2011, 03:16:05 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on July 18, 2011, 03:10:21 PM:huh:

i guess martin revealed at one of his book signings that a pov in adwd is gay. quentyn might be awkward around women, but that's explained through inexperience. he clearly has desire. barristan had his love interest. etc, etc. the only one that really fits the bill is connington, which fits given a few subtle hints--especially in the chapter where he retakes his castle

Zoupa

#76
July 20, 2011, 10:28:19 PM
So I finished the book yesterday. Pretty disappointing overall. I agree with much and more of what's been said about trimming the fat off. Why do we need half the chapters to be about Tyrion and Dany?

What's the point of the female dwarf? Why does it takes dozens of chapters to get him to Meereen? Why do we need endless Dany chapters about Slaver's Bay politics and intrigue? I don't see how Slaver's Bay can become relevant to the main plot points, which to me are the coming fight against the Others and the fight for the Iron throne.

And it seems like Martin pulled Aegon out of his hat. Varys' reasoning in the epilogue also left me going huh? So you want to sow more chaos and war and famine to save the children of Westeros. Right.

Solmyr

#77
July 22, 2011, 05:24:40 PM
I see why it's taken GRRM so long to write it. He had to do research for all the soft porn scenes. :D

Josquius

#78
July 22, 2011, 05:30:12 PM
You people read fast, I'm just coming up to halfway. <_<
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Solmyr

#79
July 23, 2011, 06:57:14 AM
Anyway, my conjectures:

Young Griff is probably not Aegon - there are too many references to the mummer's dragon. It could also indicate that he belongs to Varys, though.

Dany is pregnant - stomach cramps, blood between her thighs, seem to point to that. Whether the child is Hizdahr's or Daario's remains to be seen.

Roose Bolton isn't dead - otherwise Ramsay would be signing as Lord of the Dreadfort too. He might be captured or otherwise incapacitated though.

Viking

#80
July 23, 2011, 06:59:45 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 22, 2011, 05:30:12 PM
You people read fast, I'm just coming up to halfway. <_<

I got the ebook and read through it in 20 hours straight.
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.

Solmyr

#81
July 23, 2011, 07:24:41 AM
Also, Patchface is totally the Great Other in disguise.

Faeelin

#82
July 23, 2011, 11:48:31 AM
Quote from: Solmyr on July 23, 2011, 06:57:14 AM
Anyway, my conjectures:

Young Griff is probably not Aegon - there are too many references to the mummer's dragon. It could also indicate that he belongs to Varys, though.

This is possible, but Covington believes it. So somebody tricked him and grabbed the wrong baby early on?

Solmyr

#83
July 23, 2011, 12:21:18 PM
Quote from: Faeelin on July 23, 2011, 11:48:31 AM
Quote from: Solmyr on July 23, 2011, 06:57:14 AM
Anyway, my conjectures:

Young Griff is probably not Aegon - there are too many references to the mummer's dragon. It could also indicate that he belongs to Varys, though.

This is possible, but Covington believes it. So somebody tricked him and grabbed the wrong baby early on?

Varys, most likely.

Faeelin

#84
July 23, 2011, 01:56:55 PM
Quote from: Solmyr on July 23, 2011, 12:21:18 PM
Quote from: Faeelin on July 23, 2011, 11:48:31 AM
Quote from: Solmyr on July 23, 2011, 06:57:14 AM
Anyway, my conjectures:

Young Griff is probably not Aegon - there are too many references to the mummer's dragon. It could also indicate that he belongs to Varys, though.

This is possible, but Covington believes it. So somebody tricked him and grabbed the wrong baby early on?

Varys, most likely.

But Varys could have plausibly gotten the real babe as well, right? It's also not clear why he'd lie when he offs Kevan...

Faeelin

#85
July 23, 2011, 11:17:57 PM
I figured out why I didn't like the book.

Victory is impossible. It doesn't matter what the characters are trying to do, they will fail. Varys will stab them in the dark, or a pretender who has never been hinted at before will emerge; or you will be stabbed in the back, or the dragons will burn you and fly you away.

Why root for characters if we know that they are all doomed to failure?

Habbaku

#86
July 23, 2011, 11:35:57 PM
Which characters are doomed to failure, exactly?
The medievals were only too right in taking nolo episcopari as the best reason a man could give to others for making him a bishop. Give me a king whose chief interest in life is stamps, railways, or race-horses; and who has the power to sack his Vizier (or whatever you care to call him) if he does not like the cut of his trousers.

Government is an abstract noun meaning the art and process of governing and it should be an offence to write it with a capital G or so as to refer to people.
-J. R. R. Tolkien

Solmyr

#87
July 24, 2011, 05:03:13 AM
True to an extent, if Jon, Tyrion, and Dany were PCs in a RPG campaign, their GM would be quite a cruel one. Aegon and Varys did feel like a deus ex machina, a bit.

Faeelin

#88
July 24, 2011, 09:05:43 AM
Quote from: Solmyr on July 24, 2011, 05:03:13 AM
True to an extent, if Jon, Tyrion, and Dany were PCs in a RPG campaign, their GM would be quite a cruel one. Aegon and Varys did feel like a deus ex machina, a bit.

Even the rest of the Lannisters. "Get a decent regent? No, now knives in the back.

Be the younger, charismatic brother of the king with a large military force? Get eaten by shadow demons that are never used again.

Sophie Scholl

#89
July 24, 2011, 09:27:09 AM
Quote from: Faeelin on July 24, 2011, 09:05:43 AM
Be the younger, charismatic brother of the king with a large military force? Get eaten by shadow demons that are never used again.
Not true.  They get used again.
"Everything that brought you here -- all the things that made you a prisoner of past sins -- they are gone. Forever and for good. So let the past go... and live."

"Somebody, after all, had to make a start. What we wrote and said is also believed by many others. They just don't dare express themselves as we did."
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