10 Things You Might Not Know About America's Independence

[Razgovory]

I'm skeptical that the British would be so keen on abolishing slavery if they still had the American colonies.  It's much easier to abolish something you aren't profiting from.  They had a difficult time abolishing it in the Caribbean and that was also fairly expensive.  Abolition in the Colonies would be much, much more expensive and would be perceived as to threaten the textile industry in Britain.

[Gups]

I dunno man - I'd more put it that at worst slavery was a tie between the British and the Americans.

It is completely fair to point out that in the Empire slavery was legal in the late 18th century.  However, Britain's history in the very early 19th century diverged quite sharply from the US on the topic of slavery.  So at best, slavery was a point in the UKs favour.  In some mythical America that was loyal it seems likely slavery would have been abolished long before the 1860s.

Can't remember the exact dates, but I was surprised when I learned how late slavery was abolished in the British East Indies.

1843. Slavery was abolished (judicially) with GB in 1772, It was abolished in the rest of the empire excluding areas under the control of the East India Co in 1833

[Gups]

I'm skeptical that the British would be so keen on abolishing slavery if they still had the American colonies.  It's much easier to abolish something you aren't profiting from.  They had a difficult time abolishing it in the Caribbean and that was also fairly expensive.  Abolition in the Colonies would be much, much more expensive and would be perceived as to threaten the textile industry in Britain.

You talk about Britain as if it was a single organism. There were two lobbies just as there was in the US. Those profiting from slavery wanted to keep it, others campaigned against it largely on moral grounds. No doubt Americans would have been divided along similar lines as they were a few decades later.

[Razgovory]

I'm skeptical that the British would be so keen on abolishing slavery if they still had the American colonies.  It's much easier to abolish something you aren't profiting from.  They had a difficult time abolishing it in the Caribbean and that was also fairly expensive.  Abolition in the Colonies would be much, much more expensive and would be perceived as to threaten the textile industry in Britain.

You talk about Britain as if it was a single organism. There were two lobbies just as there was in the US. Those profiting from slavery wanted to keep it, others campaigned against it largely on moral grounds. No doubt Americans would have been divided along similar lines as they were a few decades later.

This is why I'm skeptical they would abolish it.  Slavery was becoming less and less important to the British economy when it was peacefully abolished.  In the US, slaveowners had vast political and economic clout.  As  a result, it was not peacefully abolished.

[grumbler]

Colonies exist to service the mother country.

Says who?  That wasn't historically the reason for the existence of colonies at all.

It shouldn't be surprising that they are exploited or that colonists might feel they lack representation - as they often did...at least of an effective sort.

The colonists and their descendents didn't expect to be exploited the way they were, and they had been left with representation for many years.  It is when the British started to abolish colonial political structures that the colonists rebelled.

Sure, of course. But it this pub-esque gathering that we have, on the merits, I still don't see that I could objectively be in favor.

Okay.  I can see that you cannot see.

So slavery should be forgiven because at that time "all men are created equal" really only meant that some men were equals?

Nice straw man.  Who is arguing that "slavery should be forgiven?" 

[grumbler]

This is why I'm skeptical they would abolish it.  Slavery was becoming less and less important to the British economy when it was peacefully abolished.  In the US, slaveowners had vast political and economic clout.  As  a result, it was not peacefully abolished.

In the US, slaveowners had enormous political clout because of the structure of the senate created to give them that clout.  Absent the senate, not so much clout at all.

[Valmy]

Wait there are people who do not know the Pledge is a 20th century thing and think George Washington said it with his army or something?

[Razgovory]

Wait there are people who do not know the Pledge is a 20th century thing and think George Washington said it with his army or something?

I thought it was a late 19th century thing.

[Valmy]

I thought it was a late 19th century thing.

Oh for fuck sake.

[Razgovory]

Raz is:  Shallow and Pedantic.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPWQVGBVXKI&feature=related

[grumbler]

Wait there are people who do not know the Pledge is a 20th century thing and think George Washington said it with his army or something?

I don't think anyone but this Fox News woman believes that.  She seems to have been tasked with creating a top-ten list where that was not possible, so started inventing things.

Now, I think it isn't widely known that this is the salute you are supposed to use with the pledge:

[Grey Fox]

That salute sure was popular around the world. Damn, nazis, ruined everything.

[Razgovory]

I'm pretty sure that it's possible to come up with 10 little known facts about the American Revolution that are in fact true.

[grumbler]

I'm pretty sure that it's possible to come up with 10 little known facts about the American Revolution that are in fact true.

Not if you are a moron, and that's the only type Fox News seems to hire.

[dps]

No doubt that some of the Founding Fathers were somewhat hypocritical on the matter of slavery, but since it abolition of slavery wasn't an aim of the rebellion, that has nothing to do with whether or not it was justified.