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Started by DGuller, April 18, 2009, 03:02:17 PM

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Martinus

Quote from: Siege on April 18, 2009, 10:57:23 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 18, 2009, 03:16:18 PM
Some cultures are more disposed to autocracy than democracy.

Please see: Russians, Arabs, Monoriu

Indeed. People calling for freedom in authoritary societies forget that in those societies, whoever believe in their flavor of autocracy, is perfectly "free". Back in the Soviet Union, russians that believed in comunism were perfectly "free" and happy. They had what they wanted, and didn't want at all the freedoms we enjoy in the West.

I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of chinese are perfectly happy with their regime, the same way that most mormons would be happy with a "Mormon Republic of Utah".
This is circular logic - most people anywhere would be perfectly happy to live in a society ruled by the fiat of the majority they belong to. The purpose of freedom is not to make "majority of people happy" - it's to allow people who are in the minority to be happy, and thus stimulate the growth of the society through diversity of ideas and opinions.

Once again you fail to grasp the basics of the Western society. Go back to your culture, Arab.

Martinus

Quote from: Siege on April 18, 2009, 11:00:14 PM
Not because the russians rebelled though.
Neither did Germans in the Third Reich. What's your point?

Razgovory

Quote from: Martinus on April 19, 2009, 05:14:24 AM
Quote from: Siege on April 18, 2009, 11:00:14 PM
Not because the russians rebelled though.
Neither did Germans in the Third Reich. What's your point?

Uh... Didn't some though?
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Martinus

Quote from: Razgovory on April 19, 2009, 05:31:30 AM
Quote from: Martinus on April 19, 2009, 05:14:24 AM
Quote from: Siege on April 18, 2009, 11:00:14 PM
Not because the russians rebelled though.
Neither did Germans in the Third Reich. What's your point?

Uh... Didn't some though?
Are you trying to say the Third Reich fell because the Germans rebelled?  :lol:

Resistance to the regime was present both in Germany and in Russia, and I'd say it was definitely more robust in Russia than in Germany. Ever heard of Soviet gulags and political prisons?

jimmy olsen

Quote from: Martinus on April 19, 2009, 05:11:14 AM
Quote from: Siege on April 18, 2009, 10:57:23 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 18, 2009, 03:16:18 PM
Some cultures are more disposed to autocracy than democracy.

Please see: Russians, Arabs, Monoriu

Indeed. People calling for freedom in authoritary societies forget that in those societies, whoever believe in their flavor of autocracy, is perfectly "free". Back in the Soviet Union, russians that believed in comunism were perfectly "free" and happy. They had what they wanted, and didn't want at all the freedoms we enjoy in the West.

I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of chinese are perfectly happy with their regime, the same way that most mormons would be happy with a "Mormon Republic of Utah".
This is circular logic - most people anywhere would be perfectly happy to live in a society ruled by the fiat of the majority they belong to. The purpose of freedom is not to make "majority of people happy" - it's to allow people who are in the minority to be happy, and thus stimulate the growth of the society through diversity of ideas and opinions.

Once again you fail to grasp the basics of the Western society. Go back to your culture, Arab.
Truly you are a paragon of diversity and tolerance Marty.
It is far better for the truth to tear my flesh to pieces, then for my soul to wander through darkness in eternal damnation.

Jet: So what kind of woman is she? What's Julia like?
Faye: Ordinary. The kind of beautiful, dangerous ordinary that you just can't leave alone.
Jet: I see.
Faye: Like an angel from the underworld. Or a devil from Paradise.
--------------------------------------------
1 Karma Chameleon point

Neil

What's so wacky about this?  Freedom isn't for all peoples, especially the numerous third-world types.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

The Brain

Real freedom can't be given. It must be taken.
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

Razgovory

Quote from: Martinus on April 19, 2009, 05:47:07 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 19, 2009, 05:31:30 AM
Quote from: Martinus on April 19, 2009, 05:14:24 AM
Quote from: Siege on April 18, 2009, 11:00:14 PM
Not because the russians rebelled though.
Neither did Germans in the Third Reich. What's your point?

Uh... Didn't some though?
Are you trying to say the Third Reich fell because the Germans rebelled?  :lol:

Resistance to the regime was present both in Germany and in Russia, and I'd say it was definitely more robust in Russia than in Germany. Ever heard of Soviet gulags and political prisons?

No just our gulags.  You said the Germans didn't rebel.  Some did though.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Darth Wagtaros

Quote from: Razgovory on April 18, 2009, 10:57:33 PM
As a Russian, DG don't you also wish for the soft caress of the whip and the loving embrace of chains?
Only in the bedroom I'm sure.
PDH!

Siege

Quote from: The Brain on April 19, 2009, 09:26:44 AM
Real freedom can't be given. It must be taken.

Now, this is a quote worth quoting.
Who's quote is this?



"All men are created equal, then some become infantry."

"Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't."

"Laissez faire et laissez passer, le monde va de lui même!"


garbon

"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Siege

Quote from: Martinus on April 19, 2009, 05:11:14 AM
Quote from: Siege on April 18, 2009, 10:57:23 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 18, 2009, 03:16:18 PM
Some cultures are more disposed to autocracy than democracy.

Please see: Russians, Arabs, Monoriu

Indeed. People calling for freedom in authoritary societies forget that in those societies, whoever believe in their flavor of autocracy, is perfectly "free". Back in the Soviet Union, russians that believed in comunism were perfectly "free" and happy. They had what they wanted, and didn't want at all the freedoms we enjoy in the West.

I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of chinese are perfectly happy with their regime, the same way that most mormons would be happy with a "Mormon Republic of Utah".
This is circular logic - most people anywhere would be perfectly happy to live in a society ruled by the fiat of the majority they belong to. The purpose of freedom is not to make "majority of people happy" - it's to allow people who are in the minority to be happy, and thus stimulate the growth of the society through diversity of ideas and opinions.

Once again you fail to grasp the basics of the Western society. Go back to your culture, Arab.

Dude, I was just saying how THOSE people see it.
A muslim woman that follows the Taliban is perfectly happy wearing a burka.
She even find some advantages in wearing that piece of crap. She can wear whatever she wants underneath, "saving" a lot of money, can look at whatever she wants in perfect anonimity, since nobody can tell what she is looking at, or can even tell who is under the burka, etc.
I read a list of the "advantages" for women of following islam and covering their bodies, but I forgot most of it.
PTSD, you know.

Anyway, get off your high horse. I know perfectly well how western democracy works.
Unlike you, I was born in one.


"All men are created equal, then some become infantry."

"Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't."

"Laissez faire et laissez passer, le monde va de lui même!"


dps

Isn't it cute how Siegy operates under the delusion that he's from a western country, but chides Marty for having the same delusion?

Neil

Quote from: dps on April 19, 2009, 08:49:46 PM
Isn't it cute how Siegy operates under the delusion that he's from a western country, but chides Marty for having the same delusion?
:lol:

Well said.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

Siege

Quote from: Neil on April 19, 2009, 08:52:18 PM
Quote from: dps on April 19, 2009, 08:49:46 PM
Isn't it cute how Siegy operates under the delusion that he's from a western country, but chides Marty for having the same delusion?
:lol:

Well said.

:mad:



"All men are created equal, then some become infantry."

"Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't."

"Laissez faire et laissez passer, le monde va de lui même!"