World of Tanks

[Berkut]

Feel free to look up my Lowe stats.  It's possible that I'm just very incompetent, but it's more possible that it's just not the uber tank you think it is.  In fact, I don't play Lowe anymore, I just keep it around in case I desperately need a free experience injection.  I don't even have crew in it anymore, I put them in my new Tiger.

Yep. 

It's funny how Berkut's bitching almost completely mirrors that of all the other little fuckers on the WoT forums.

Well duh, and it's funny how your desperate defense of your wallet tank exactly mirrors the sniveling of all the other wallet warriors who don't want to look like the bitches everyone (including themsevelves) know that they are.

Personally, I bought the Löwe because of two reasons:

1. I wanted to play a heavy and realized it would be a LONG trip there down the German tree unlike the son of a whore shortcut the Russians get in the KV.

Of course, 'I want to be the top dog, but don't want to actually do the work to get there - I'll just buy my way to the top instead!' is in fact the standard reason that all wallet warriors have for buying what they don't want to bother earning.

2. It is a great producer of credits. In a good game I can net upwards of 80-100k and this makes the credit grind to the Tier 8+ tanks much less annoying.

Indeed it is, I am sure. I am already starting to see that creds are going to become the limiting factor rather than experience when I move into the Panther and IS and JagdPanther. Hopefully I won't bitch out and take the barbie path though. At least, no more than I am already.

I mainly play my 3002 and Tiger, but I switch to the Löwe when I need to make cash for upgrades or new tanks.

No one has claimed that fighting Tier-6 tanks in the Löwe is difficult, but driving the Löwe is certainly comparatively more difficult than the other Tier-8 heavies.

Nobody has claimed that the Lowe is better than other Tier-8 heavies either. But the idea that it isn't a bitch tank for wallet warriors because it can't demolish the very best tanks in the game with the ease that it blows away most of the stuff it has to face is more than a little bit silly.

Listening to you guys is like listening to some trust fund kid whine about how money doesn't REALLY make life easier for him - why, just the other day he got a C on his English exam at Yale because his tutor was on vacation!

[Berkut]

Dude. You don't get it. When you face the Löwe it's always going to be at the top. Not the case when you're playing it.

Your complaints hold true for ALL T7+ heavy tanks. The worst LOLtank out there is the T-54 which is just fucking ridiculous.

Of course I get it - I never said anything otherwise.

The fact that it doesn't let you stroll around killing everything on the field doesn't make it any less of a bitch tank because you bought it so you can destroy ALMOST everything on the field, without actually earning your way to that position.

[Slargos]

You sound like a goddamned communist. 

Anyway. Bitch all you like.

That you should get so upset about "earning" a tank in a game makes me laugh. QQ you little sniveling wretch. 

[DGuller]

I said it dominates most of the other tanks that are on the battlefield with it, and that is absolutely true.

Not quite.  As I said, you think it is true only because the only time you see Lowe, it's when it's getting a favorable matchmaking.  You will never see it being pitted with Tier 10 tanks, because you cannot be matched with Tier 10 tanks yourself.  You're making a conclusion from a limited, and highly biased, sample.

Unless you are in a match that is 50% or more high tier heavy tanks, it is going to be dominant over most of its opponents.

Debatable, and depends on how you define dominant.  In my experience, I never felt nearly as dominant in Lowe as I feel in IS or 3601 when I get a top spot.

I am sure it has weak spots - but so what? All tanks have weak spots. Of course, when you are driving around in a Lowe and shooting at a T7 medium, the entire enemy tank is a weak spot - you don't have to hope for a hit on a weak spot.

Nevertheless, in practice, a T7 medium tank wins much more often than you think it does, at least when I'm in the Lowe.  You're discounting a fact that Lowe is very slow, and has a very long reload time.

[Berkut]

You sound like a goddamned communist. 

At least you are acknowledging that you are buying your way to the top instead of earning it.

Anyway. Bitch all you like.

Nah, I am not really bitching, just mocking you posers in your shiny rims. Someone has to pay for the game, and if it wasn't for you hardcore gangstas, it would probably cost me more.

You guys are bad-fucking-ass hombres in your tricked out civics.

That you should get so upset about "earning" a tank in a game makes me laugh. QQ you little sniveling wretch. 

That you should be so upset that your game bad assedness should be mocked makes me giggle and validates my desire to mock you.

Hey slargos - pull your pants up already.

[Slargos]

You're a broken record, Berkut. Don't take out your frustrations over sucking at the game on others. You just need some more practice.

[Berkut]

I don't think more practice is going to help. I think I need to get my DB lowered and some spinners, so I can be hardcore like you and DG.

I just bounced three rounds off the front of a M10 wolverine with my 3002DB. That thing must have some wickedly sloped armor or something.

[Slargos]

I don't think more practice is going to help. I think I need to get my DB lowered and some spinners, so I can be hardcore like you and DG.

I just bounced three rounds off the front of a M10 wolverine with my 3002DB. That thing must have some wickedly sloped armor or something.

See, you don't have a clue.

[DGuller]

Berkut, I think the real issue is that you're too cheap.  Originally you were reluctant to pay $10 a month for a game, whereas I think it's a trifle amount if the game gives you dozens of hours of enjoyment a month.

Same with paying $30 for a Lowe.  I bought it so that I could grind more effectively, I didn't buy it to be at the top.  To me, "the top" means that you completed a research tree, something I haven't accomplished yet.  Paying $30 is a small price to pay for saving myself mindless grinding in tanks I hate, and keeps the game more enjoyable to me.

[Berkut]

Berkut, I think the real issue is that you're too cheap.  Originally you were reluctant to pay $10 a month for a game, whereas I think it's a trifle amount if the game gives you dozens of hours of enjoyment a month.

Same with paying $30 for a Lowe.  I bought it so that I could grind more effectively, I didn't buy it to be at the top.  To me, "the top" means that you completed a research tree, something I haven't accomplished yet.  Paying $30 is a small price to pay for saving myself mindless grinding in tanks I hate, and keeps the game more enjoyable to me.

Quit trying to take the fun out of my contempt for slargos.

[Berkut]

My real beef with the Lowe and KV-5 is that while they may allow YOU to have more fun while grinding, they do it at the expense of others NOT having as much fun, because they are less likely to get a interesting match up. You ahve more fun grinding because of course it is more fun to earn the needed xp and creds while blowing away others, instead of doing so while being blown away. And of course you earn them a lot faster.

Earning 60k creds killing chumps in T-34s >>> earning 9k creds getting blown away by barbies in Lowes.

This makes for a poorer game. It may be necessary from the standpoint of of the business, but it is basically a system where WoT is allowing some players to purchase more fun at the expense of those who are not willing to make that purchase. It is a competetive game, so making player A more capable is always at the expense of another player - in this case at the expense of many other players.

It also incents WoT to make that grind even more unpleasant, so as to force more players to pay as you did to avoid it. Then if enough players do so, that becomes the new "standard" or normal path, and some OTHER paid for advantage will be developed to drive more revenue from those who are willing to pay cash to get an advantage over the other players. This has already happened, for example, with the need to pay for a premium account.

Again, this is probably all fine from a business model standpoint, but it makes for a poorer game.

[Slargos]

I understand how you're thinking, but you're still off the mark.

A game where you're facing a Löwe is no different from where you're facing a KT. Let's just establish this fact. There is no "pay to win" functionality in the Löwe. Its armour and gun is comparable to other Tier-8s.

Additionally, I highly doubt people are shelling out cash en masse to bypass tiers especially since it gets prohibitively expensive in later tiers.

I doubt the use of lower tier tanks is more than marginally affected by the use of Löwes.

Whereever you are in the tech tree, there will always [within reason, duh] be players around +-2-3 tiers of yourself.

Just looking at my own stats, I have about 1800 games, out of which roughly 300 in the Löwe. Given that for most of the time I run 3 tanks including the Löwe [although lately I've been expanding, and I'm going to keep the Tiger/II even when I get the E-100] it means that the Löwe is actually my least used tank slot, even if in absolute terms it is my most used tank.

[Berkut]

I understand how you're thinking, but you're still off the mark.

A game where you're facing a Löwe is no different from where you're facing a KT. Let's just establish this fact. There is no "pay to win" functionality in the Löwe. Its armour and gun is comparable to other Tier-8s.

Never said anything otherwise.

However, there most certainly IS a "pay to win" since if you don't pay for the Lowe, you aren't going to playing with a T8 heavy at all, and in this game heavier generally beats lighter, and higher tier most certainly beats lower.

Additionally, I highly doubt people are shelling out cash en masse to bypass tiers especially since it gets prohibitively expensive in later tiers.

No, the cost to buy a high tier heavy tank is perfectly consistent. You buy your Lowe, and then you have it, and you get to be one of the Big Dogs long before anyone who is not willing to buy one.

I doubt the use of lower tier tanks is more than marginally affected by the use of Löwes.

That is not correct at all. It is not at all uncommon to get into matches where I am up against 4 enemy Lowes. Almost every single one of those would be a mid tier heavy or medium if the Lowe was not available to be bought. I imagine there might be some people who use their Lowe when they have a legitimate high tier heavy available, but that is almost certainly the exception rather than the rule.

Whereever you are in the tech tree, there will always [within reason, duh] be players around +-2-3 tiers of yourself.

Of course. But without the Lowe being available to barbies like you, you barbies would be forced to play on the same even playing field.

You cannot argue that the Lowe doesn't matter - in that case, why were you so foolish to spend all the money for it? You cannot have your cake and eat it too - either the Lowe gives you a significant advantage, in which case it makes perfect sense why so many people are willing to label themselves as bitches for buying one, or it doesn't give any advantage, in which case you are an idiot for spending cash for something that doesn't even help you.

Just looking at my own stats, I have about 1800 games, out of which roughly 300 in the Löwe. Given that for most of the time I run 3 tanks including the Löwe [although lately I've been expanding, and I'm going to keep the Tiger/II even when I get the E-100] it means that the Löwe is actually my least used tank slot, even if in absolute terms it is my most used tank.

So? What does that have to do with anything? You bought a Lowe, you use it all the time so you can have a T8 heavy without going to the trouble of grinding for it. Whether you use it a lot, a little, or something in between doesn't change much of anything.

[Slargos]

Never said anything otherwise.

However, there most certainly IS a "pay to win" since if you don't pay for the Lowe, you aren't going to playing with a T8 heavy at all, and in this game heavier generally beats lighter, and higher tier most certainly beats lower.

You still don't get it. You don't have a higher chance to win in a Löwe than in a PzIII. You're still facing equal amounts of lower, equal and higher tiers. If anything, playing the Löwe is harder since if you buy it before you've gotten experience in playing Heavies, you're going to be facing a lot more experienced opposition. Additionally, on the lower tiers most tanks die relatively rapidly, whereas you need upwards of 5-6 Good hits on most tanks in the higher tiers which means you have to consider your positioning much more than in lower tiers.

No, the cost to buy a high tier heavy tank is perfectly consistent. You buy your Lowe, and then you have it, and you get to be one of the Big Dogs long before anyone who is not willing to buy one.

The only way to bypass tiers is to transfer experience. At €1 = 275 gold, you're getting €1 = 6875 converted XP which means that for instance buying the Panther costs about €13 aside from all the battles you have to fight in the Löwe to get that XP. Also not counting the upgrades you have to buy. If you want to go straight from the 3002 to the Panther, that's more like €20.

Your insistence that getting the Löwe means you get to be "one of the Big Dogs" is just silly. If you're in the middle of the pack in a Tier 3-6 battle, it's not a lot different from being in the middle in a 7-10 battle.

That is not correct at all. It is not at all uncommon to get into matches where I am up against 4 enemy Lowes. Almost every single one of those would be a mid tier heavy or medium if the Lowe was not available to be bought. I imagine there might be some people who use their Lowe when they have a legitimate high tier heavy available, but that is almost certainly the exception rather than the rule.

Maybe things are different on the US server, but I don't see Löwe in every battle, and I've only seen 4 Löwes on one team very rarely. Additionally, a guy on the forum actually did a survey on the subject, and he found that people driving Löwes without access to T7+ vehicles were the exception rather than the rule.

Of course. But without the Lowe being available to barbies like you, you barbies would be forced to play on the same even playing field.

Are you just pulling my leg? I'm playing on the same field you are, there is no inherent battle advantage to playing the Löwe as opposed to another T-8.

You cannot argue that the Lowe doesn't matter - in that case, why were you so foolish to spend all the money for it? You cannot have your cake and eat it too - either the Lowe gives you a significant advantage, in which case it makes perfect sense why so many people are willing to label themselves as bitches for buying one, or it doesn't give any advantage, in which case you are an idiot for spending cash for something that doesn't even help you.

I haven't argued that it doesn't matter. It does matter. It gave me the opportunity to play Heavies long before I had unlocked access to them (OMG UNFIAR) and it increases my credit income. Is it "unfair" to get a premium account? The Löwe increases credits earned by 50%, so does premium account. By your reasoning, you're also a wallet warrior since you're gaining advantages not available to those who won't pay to play.

So? What does that have to do with anything? You bought a Lowe, you use it all the time so you can have a T8 heavy without going to the trouble of grinding for it. Whether you use it a lot, a little, or something in between doesn't change much of anything.

I thought you were clever enough to notice that people playing Löwe means fewer lights and mediums in combat, but you're too stupid to make even such a cogent argument. It would actually be the most (only?) serious consequence of the Löwe. The rest is just bitching, but if enough people are playing heavies it will mean very bad matchmaking for the lower tiers.

As usual, you're just full of Hot Berkut. 

[DGuller]

You ahve more fun grinding because of course it is more fun to earn the needed xp and creds while blowing away others, instead of doing so while being blown away.

Again with that assumption that you're blowing people away in a Lowe, just because the only Lowes you see are the lucky ones.  Here are my stats for several tanks in a German heavy tree:

Panzer IV - 119 enemy killed in 132 games
VK 3601 - 150 enemy killed in 138 games
Lowe - 37 enemy killed in 52 games

If I wanted to blow people away, Tier 5 or Tier 6 German medium sounds like a better bet by far.

And of course you earn them a lot faster.

That is true, and that is why I was using the Lowe for a while.  The thing is that I don't have much free time to play the game, and the progress in this game is slow.  Time for me is a much more limited commodity than money.  If I can save myself 20 frustrating battles with a turd like Lee, I will.