Corsican Ogre vs. Perfidious Albion TEH POLL

[Drakken]

Yeah Napoleon was about as democratic as Louis XIV.  At least, according to this nephew (who do have a soft spot for since he actually did do this at the end of his reign), the plan was to eventually make it democratic this was supposed to be a transition phase.  Of course I doubt Napoleon I himself would have allowed that to happen while he was alive.

Only when his personal fortune would surpass the two billion francs threshold. He had about 600 millions francs in gold in the Tuileries when he got deposed the first time.

Napoleon was about power and money. When he got back from Elba he was ready to promise anything to come back on his throne, even a new liberal constitution with elections. And what "constitution" he gave to France in 1815 : at least people could elect their mayors now.

[Valmy]

Well, I'm going to withdraw what I said earlier, since both the Athenian Democracy and the Polish Nobles' Democracy are considered to be form of democracies by scholars, apparently.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Liberty

So I think Ide is talking about "liberal democracy" and refusing to call "democracy" every other form of democracy.

I have a hard time considering a system that allowed a minority of one to overturn the majority everytime really that democratic.  Really if they had just had a method of overturning a veto with a super majority their system would have had alot to admire about it.

[Martinus]

Well, I'm going to withdraw what I said earlier, since both the Athenian Democracy and the Polish Nobles' Democracy are considered to be form of democracies by scholars, apparently.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Liberty

So I think Ide is talking about "liberal democracy" and refusing to call "democracy" every other form of democracy.

I have a hard time considering a system that allowed a minority of one to overturn the majority everytime really that democratic.  Really if they had just had a method of overturning a veto with a super majority their system would have had alot to admire about it.

Originally it worked like that, but later started to get abused. It was also used very sparringly at first, but later became a plague. It just goes to show that democratic institutions are only as good as the people who get to use them.

See also: filibuster.

Edit: Originally, liberum veto was used as a "threat" or "pause" - essentially, an opposing representative would say "liberum veto" to force the house to deliberate more on the measure instead of going straight to the voting, and would either end up being convinced to withdraw it or another compromise would be reached. Only after about 200 years of use (in late 17th century), it would involve some minor guy (usually paid by that or this magnate party or a foreign power) to yell "liberum veto" and then run as quickly as possibly out of the room, thus essentially forcing the parliament session to a halt (unless he was caught and brought back and forced under threat of violence to retract).

As I said, it just goes to show, that a lot depends on how the representatives treat such tools.

[Valmy]

See also: filibuster.

Well the way it works in the US Senate you can overturn a filibuster with a 60% vote.

[Agelastus]

  to keep Albion slightly ahead.