Global War On Drugs 'Has Failed' Say Former Leaders

[Eddie Teach]

Last time I checked, Doctors and Nurses made a lot more than Corrections and Parole Officers. The idea sounds great, less crime, less need for prisons, that's if you ignore the increased costs to Medicaid, more hospitals and inpatient programs, etc, and so on.

How much do nursing home attendants make?

[Malthus]

I am not sure I see the benefits to switching to a 'medical model' for dealing with illegal drugs.

Medicaid is already the 800 lbs Gorilla in the back of the room when it comes to the budgets of most States. Switching to a 'medical model' will only increase costs to Medicaid and just change the address of the drug dealers e.g. from the corner of North and Genny to Glaxo-Kline Smith.

Also there will be plenty of abuse. Most of my Heroin users are currently enrolled in program and receive Suboxone treatments (the new Methadone). I catch most of them selling the pills to support their habit.

The drugs themselves are not inherently expensive. They are expensive because they are illegal.

A "medical model" would replace a whole infrastructure designed to catch, prosecute, and jail addicts - with providing them with a prescription. The costs are a lot less. Presumably, these addicts would not have to commit a whole range of *other* crimes to support their habit - leading to a reduction of crime generally.

Naturally, a lot of addicts sell the pills they don't want to "support their habit" - that is, to get the drugs the *do* want. Not sure how giving them the drugs they want in the first place would be subject to that weakness.

The addicts will, presumably, suffer whatever bad effects taking the drugs have, but they will suffer a lot less, because the drugs will be of pharma grade and not street crap.

[Malthus]

So let's throw them all in prison where...the tax payers foot the bill for drug addicts. 

Personally, I'd say yes, I'd prefer to see a drug user in prison living on my dime than sitting at home in front of a big screen TV getting high on my dime.

If I had the ultimate answer than I'd be a very wealthy man. I do know that the idea of legalizing drugs and switching to a 'medical model' has a lot of pitfalls and costs that are being ignored or overlooked. It's not the panacea people make it out to be.

Why is it better to see an addict in prision than at home (in front of a big screen TV or not)? I hear this repeatedly, some jokingly (I can well understand the hatred of filthy hippies and teenagers  ), some not; but I don't understand it.

Why the wanting to see these people punished? To my mind, addiction is its own punishment.

[DGuller]

So let's throw them all in prison where...the tax payers foot the bill for drug addicts. 

Personally, I'd say yes, I'd prefer to see a drug user in prison living on my dime than sitting at home in front of a big screen TV getting high on my dime.

If I had the ultimate answer than I'd be a very wealthy man. I do know that the idea of legalizing drugs and switching to a 'medical model' has a lot of pitfalls and costs that are being ignored or overlooked. It's not the panacea people make it out to be.

It all makes sense as long as you, well, ignore the cost of putting non-violent people to prison.  Notice how that cost somehow doesn't enter your mind;  in fact, you seem to treat it as a positive outcome.  That's very revealing of your mindset.

[Strix]

It all makes sense as long as you, well, ignore the cost of putting non-violent people to prison.  Notice how that cost somehow doesn't enter your mind;  in fact, you seem to treat it as a positive outcome.  That's very revealing of your mindset.

So, non-violent people shouldn't go to prison. Is that your mind-set?

[DGuller]

It all makes sense as long as you, well, ignore the cost of putting non-violent people to prison.  Notice how that cost somehow doesn't enter your mind;  in fact, you seem to treat it as a positive outcome.  That's very revealing of your mindset.

So, non-violent people shouldn't go to prison. Is that your mind-set?

People who don't do harm to anyone else or their property shouldn't go to prison, no.

[HVC]

Just make drugs legal, but make it that people who commit crimes under the influence or to get drugs have harsher sentences. win-win. legal drugs for the legal crowd, prison sentences for those that like jails for druggies.

[Strix]

Why is it better to see an addict in prision than at home (in front of a big screen TV or not)? I hear this repeatedly, some jokingly (I can well understand the hatred of filthy hippies and teenagers  ), some not; but I don't understand it.

Why the wanting to see these people punished? To my mind, addiction is its own punishment.

Both the 'criminal model' and the 'medical model' can result in the loss of a person's freedom. People aren't usually placed in jail or prison for their first minor drug offense. Just as people aren't placed into inpatient treatment for low levels of drug addiction.

Being placed in County Jail or County Drug Rehab for 90 days are the same thing to some people. I have many parolees prefer to go back to prison than rehab.

I don't want to see people punished. I do want to see something more constructive done with my money if I have to pay for it. I see the costs of Rehab first hand, and I see a lot of wasted tax payers money. Prison is not the answer to a person's addiction but it is an answer for keeping them away until they are ready to make a change.

[Jacob]

It all makes sense as long as you, well, ignore the cost of putting non-violent people to prison.  Notice how that cost somehow doesn't enter your mind;  in fact, you seem to treat it as a positive outcome.  That's very revealing of your mindset.

Well, if we do move to a medical model, Strix might end up without a job. That might inform his mindset too.

[Strix]

People who don't do harm to anyone else or their property shouldn't go to prison, no.

Now you changed your mind. So, you are ok with non-violent people going to prison who harm someone else's property?

[DGuller]

It all makes sense as long as you, well, ignore the cost of putting non-violent people to prison.  Notice how that cost somehow doesn't enter your mind;  in fact, you seem to treat it as a positive outcome.  That's very revealing of your mindset.

Well, if we do move to a medical model, Strix might end up without a job. That might inform his mindset too.

I think he's pretty safe, he's in a union in New York.

[Strix]

Well, if we do move to a medical model, Strix might end up without a job. That might inform his mindset too.

I hate to break it to you but drugs are not the root of all evil and crime in the world. I would prefer that they change how drugs are handled under the law. It would make my job a lot easier. I'd have time to monitor and help the killers, rapists, arsonists, burglars, robbers, and other assorted criminals I supervise a whole lot more.

[Jacob]

I don't want to see people punished. I do want to see something more constructive done with my money if I have to pay for it. I see the costs of Rehab first hand, and I see a lot of wasted tax payers money. Prison is not the answer to a person's addiction but it is an answer for keeping them away until they are ready to make a change.

The medical model that's being proposed in this thread is not enforced rehab. It's making drugs available to addicts legally, and helping them use the drugs in a setting that minimizes external causes of harm. This combined with rehab for the addicts who want it.

[Jacob]

I hate to break it to you but drugs are not the root of all evil and crime in the world. I would prefer that they change how drugs are handled under the law. It would make my job a lot easier. I'd have time to monitor and help the killers, rapists, arsonists, burglars, robbers, and other assorted criminals I supervise a whole lot more.

With this and DGullers observation, I withdraw my ad hominem 

[DGuller]

People who don't do harm to anyone else or their property shouldn't go to prison, no.

Now you changed your mind. So, you are ok with non-violent people going to prison who harm someone else's property?

I didn't change my mind, I clarified my point by expressing it more completely.  The point was that people who do not infringe upon the rights of others should not be incarcerated, or have the threat of such hanging over them.