Global War On Drugs 'Has Failed' Say Former Leaders

[Barrister]

Awesome this is getting some airing in public.
Lets hope the coalition in an effort to raise money decides to legalise and tax cannabis.
Unlikely but I can hope.

Most of the negative effects they are talking about aren't from cannabis.

Do you really want to legalize and tax cocaine, meth and herion?

For the seriously addictive-type drugs which have potentially harmful or fatal effects on users, like heroin and cigarettes, I'd like to see a "medical" rather than a "criminal" model in place - have addicts go to their physicians and get a prescription for their fix, which they could then obtain like any other pharmaceutical product - in physician-supervised, regulated doses.

Seems better for everyone than treating addicts as criminals.

Such an approach has its place, but it's not a panacea.

It's most commonly known in the Methadone treatment for opiod addiction.  Methadone is a slightly safer, and gives less of a rush (but yet blocks the same receptors, thus preventing withdrawl symptoms), which is why it is used in weening people off of opioids.

But you have to want to get off of opioids for this to work.  If you have no interest in quitting, there's not much to be said for simply giving out Methadone.

It is probably worse for other hard drugs.  There's no other, safer, alternative to methamphetamines or cocaine.  It's ethically problematic for doctors to be prescribing hard drugs.  And again it only really works if people want to quit.

[crazy canuck]

It is probably worse for other hard drugs.  There's no other, safer, alternative to methamphetamines or cocaine.  It's ethically problematic for doctors to be prescribing hard drugs.  And again it only really works if people want to quit.

A lot of what doctors do is ethically difficult but we still ask them to do it.  Doctors are always having to make a decision about whether a person needs pain killers legitimately or whether they are trying to obtain the prescription drugs for other purposes.  This would be essentially the same judgment call.\

Also, I think you have artificially restricted medical treatment to only a course of treatment for quiting.  Assisting a person with an addiction to deal with the addiction in a safe manner is also a legitimate medical treatment - or so says our Court of Appeal - it will interesting to see what the SCC says about it when they release their decision in the Insite case.

[Malthus]

Awesome this is getting some airing in public.
Lets hope the coalition in an effort to raise money decides to legalise and tax cannabis.
Unlikely but I can hope.

Most of the negative effects they are talking about aren't from cannabis.

Do you really want to legalize and tax cocaine, meth and herion?

For the seriously addictive-type drugs which have potentially harmful or fatal effects on users, like heroin and cigarettes, I'd like to see a "medical" rather than a "criminal" model in place - have addicts go to their physicians and get a prescription for their fix, which they could then obtain like any other pharmaceutical product - in physician-supervised, regulated doses.

Seems better for everyone than treating addicts as criminals.

Such an approach has its place, but it's not a panacea.

It's most commonly known in the Methadone treatment for opiod addiction.  Methadone is a slightly safer, and gives less of a rush (but yet blocks the same receptors, thus preventing withdrawl symptoms), which is why it is used in weening people off of opioids.

But you have to want to get off of opioids for this to work.  If you have no interest in quitting, there's not much to be said for simply giving out Methadone.

It is probably worse for other hard drugs.  There's no other, safer, alternative to methamphetamines or cocaine.  It's ethically problematic for doctors to be prescribing hard drugs.  And again it only really works if people want to quit.

To my mind, maintenance of an addiction is a medical strategy. If you are going to replace the criminal system with a medical one, you have to have a strategy for dealing with those who simply don't wish to quit, or are unable to.

To my mind, it is simply better for our society to allow these folks to have drugs under medical supervision than to attempt to arrest and jail them, in order to deter them from being addicts.

That's on a pure cost-benefit analysis: less harms and costs to society and to the individuals involved; deterrence doesn't seem to be a great strategy. To my mind it also raises less morally troubling questions concerning the legitimacy of punishing someone for being an addict, when addiction is arguably a compulsion that the average person cannot overcome.   

[Strix]

I am not sure I see the benefits to switching to a 'medical model' for dealing with illegal drugs.

Medicaid is already the 800 lbs Gorilla in the back of the room when it comes to the budgets of most States. Switching to a 'medical model' will only increase costs to Medicaid and just change the address of the drug dealers e.g. from the corner of North and Genny to Glaxo-Kline Smith.

Also there will be plenty of abuse. Most of my Heroin users are currently enrolled in program and receive Suboxone treatments (the new Methadone). I catch most of them selling the pills to support their habit.

[garbon]

I am not sure I see the benefits to switching to a 'medical model' for dealing with illegal drugs.

Medicaid is already the 800 lbs Gorilla in the back of the room when it comes to the budgets of most States. Switching to a 'medical model' will only increase costs to Medicaid and just change the address of the drug dealers e.g. from the corner of North and Genny to Glaxo-Kline Smith.

Also there will be plenty of abuse. Most of my Heroin users are currently enrolled in program and receive Suboxone treatments (the new Methadone). I catch most of them selling the pills to support their habit.

I don't see a problem with supporting Pharma companies over street sellers.

[crazy canuck]

Medicaid is already the 800 lbs Gorilla in the back of the room when it comes to the budgets of most States. Switching to a 'medical model' will only increase costs to Medicaid and just change the address of the drug dealers e.g. from the corner of North and Genny to Glaxo-Kline Smith.

How many prison cells will be emptied?

[Razgovory]

I am not sure I see the benefits to switching to a 'medical model' for dealing with illegal drugs.

Medicaid is already the 800 lbs Gorilla in the back of the room when it comes to the budgets of most States. Switching to a 'medical model' will only increase costs to Medicaid and just change the address of the drug dealers e.g. from the corner of North and Genny to Glaxo-Kline Smith.

Also there will be plenty of abuse. Most of my Heroin users are currently enrolled in program and receive Suboxone treatments (the new Methadone). I catch most of them selling the pills to support their habit.

I don't see a problem with supporting Pharma companies over street sellers.

Of course you don't.  That's like Malthus supporting Lawyers over Doctors.

[Strix]

I am not sure I see the benefits to switching to a 'medical model' for dealing with illegal drugs.

Medicaid is already the 800 lbs Gorilla in the back of the room when it comes to the budgets of most States. Switching to a 'medical model' will only increase costs to Medicaid and just change the address of the drug dealers e.g. from the corner of North and Genny to Glaxo-Kline Smith.

Also there will be plenty of abuse. Most of my Heroin users are currently enrolled in program and receive Suboxone treatments (the new Methadone). I catch most of them selling the pills to support their habit.

I don't see a problem with supporting Pharma companies over street sellers.

The problem is who will be supporting the Pharma companies. I have a major issue with tax payers footing the bill for drug addicts.

[Habbaku]

The problem is who will be supporting the Pharma companies. I have a major issue with tax payers footing the bill for drug addicts.

So let's throw them all in prison where...the tax payers foot the bill for drug addicts. 

[garbon]

The problem is who will be supporting the Pharma companies. I have a major issue with tax payers footing the bill for drug addicts.

And we don't now?

[Strix]

Medicaid is already the 800 lbs Gorilla in the back of the room when it comes to the budgets of most States. Switching to a 'medical model' will only increase costs to Medicaid and just change the address of the drug dealers e.g. from the corner of North and Genny to Glaxo-Kline Smith.

How many prison cells will be emptied?

How many hospital beds will be filled?

Last time I checked, Doctors and Nurses made a lot more than Corrections and Parole Officers. The idea sounds great, less crime, less need for prisons, that's if you ignore the increased costs to Medicaid, more hospitals and inpatient programs, etc, and so on.

[Strix]

The problem is who will be supporting the Pharma companies. I have a major issue with tax payers footing the bill for drug addicts.

And we don't now?

Not to the extent that we would be if the system changed to a 'medical model'.

[garbon]

I am not sure I see the benefits to switching to a 'medical model' for dealing with illegal drugs.

Medicaid is already the 800 lbs Gorilla in the back of the room when it comes to the budgets of most States. Switching to a 'medical model' will only increase costs to Medicaid and just change the address of the drug dealers e.g. from the corner of North and Genny to Glaxo-Kline Smith.

Also there will be plenty of abuse. Most of my Heroin users are currently enrolled in program and receive Suboxone treatments (the new Methadone). I catch most of them selling the pills to support their habit.

I don't see a problem with supporting Pharma companies over street sellers.

Of course you don't.  That's like Malthus supporting Lawyers over Doctors.

Think about the quality of the product!

[Strix]

So let's throw them all in prison where...the tax payers foot the bill for drug addicts. 

Personally, I'd say yes, I'd prefer to see a drug user in prison living on my dime than sitting at home in front of a big screen TV getting high on my dime.

If I had the ultimate answer than I'd be a very wealthy man. I do know that the idea of legalizing drugs and switching to a 'medical model' has a lot of pitfalls and costs that are being ignored or overlooked. It's not the panacea people make it out to be.

[DGuller]

Awesome this is getting some airing in public.
Lets hope the coalition in an effort to raise money decides to legalise and tax cannabis.
Unlikely but I can hope.

Most of the negative effects they are talking about aren't from cannabis.

Do you really want to legalize and tax cocaine, meth and herion?

Sure, why not?  Why should I carefully plan my Claritin D purchases in order to not commit a federal crime, just because someone could use the pseudoephedrine in it to cook the meth?  If people want to kill themselves, let them do it, don't restrict the freedoms of others to badly try to restrict the freedom of the junkies.